America 250 And Delaware’s Story

Anna Crowley Redding 0:00

That you can be a regular person. And maybe what you do or who you are is in societal terms insignificant. And yet, an opportunity can arrive in your lab to do something courageous and you can come through in a way that makes it a real difference.

Crista Cowan 0:18

Stories That Live In Us is a podcast that inspires you to form deep connections with your family, past, present, and future. I'm Crista Cowan, known online as The Barefoot Genealogist. Counting down to the upcoming celebration of America's 250th birthday, you'll meet families from each state whose stories are woven into the very fabric of America. Tales of immigration, migration, courage, and community that remind us that when we tell our stories, we strengthen the bonds that connect us. So join me for season two as we discover from Sea to Shining Sea the stories that live in us. When we first started planning season two and decided to tell a story from each of the 50 states in reverse order of when they became a state, if you had asked me what state number one was, I probably couldn't have told you. But it's Delaware. In fact, their state motto is the first state. So maybe that should have been a little bit of a clue. But we've made it to the state of Delaware. And here's the interesting thing about Delaware, which is that it is right near Washington, D.C. And it's so interesting when you look at the states around our nation's capital, how many people from Virginia and Maryland and Delaware work in Washington, D.C. Well, our story today is about a man who worked in the city and yet he was from Delaware. My guest today is an author, and she is an author of children's books, which I find delightful. But even more delightful is her subject matter. I'm so excited for you to hear my conversation with Anna Crowley Reading as she shares about an unlikely hero from the state of Delaware.

Books, Travel, And Early Roots

Crista Cowan 2:10

Well, Anna, I'm so excited to have you here. I would love to just have you start by sharing a little bit about you, like where you grew up and what your family was like and what that experience was for you.

Anna Crowley Redding 2:22

Well, I kind of was all over the place. I was born in upstate South Carolina, and my mom and dad divorced when I was quite young. So my mom and stepdad lived in both Savannah and Bermuda. So it was kind of triangulating between Spartanburg, Savannah, and Bermuda, which was kind of interesting because at that point, you know, in the 80s in South Carolina, to travel on a regular basis to a community that didn't have the social issues that we had in this in the South was really mind-opening. And I think Bermuda is so historic in a different way than the South that it kind of started to feed into this interest in me in understanding um cultures that I wasn't born into and how do they work and how does that function and what events led to this and that and how they think. And so you kind of see for me early on um this sort of dive into history. And the other thing was books. And so when I go to talk to um schools about books and their importance, because you my situation growing up was very instable. And so I found an enormous amount of stability in books, in those stories.

Crista Cowan 3:43

Yeah, I I love that. I think that's um children who can escape into books, I think grow up to be very well-adjusted adults because they have such that broad exposure. But the fact that you had that exposure to different cultures and experiences in your real life, in addition to the books, is a really unique thing. Did your family have any connection to Bermuda or was that just a favorite spot?

Anna Crowley Redding 4:09

No, my stepfather um was in the hospitality business. So he ran a hotel there. So he and my mom lived there full time. So we were kind of the lucky beneficiaries of that, and just it's very safe. So there was a lot of freedom. So we're like running all over the island um with a lot of freedom. So it was really good for us in terms of growing independence. I love that.

Crista Cowan 4:32

So tell me about like so you've got these divorced parents. Did you have um relationships with grandparents on either side of your family? I did.

Anna Crowley Redding 4:41

Um, on my dad's side, we were very like it, it's very Irish. So, like kind of centers around the matriarch of the family, my grandmother. Um, so it was, you know, dinner at her house every Sunday with your best manners and that kind of thing. Um, with my mom's mom, um, my mom's father died before I was born. So my mom's mom uh lived in Delaware. And um, so she would write letters and stuff. So, you know, it's kind of difficult to remember the days before um email and the internet, but she would send letters and that kind of thing. So she definitely would stay in touch.

Crista Cowan 5:20

Oh, I love that. Yeah, we moved away from my grandparents when I was about 13, and letters was a thing.

Anna Crowley Redding 5:26

Um, and I often think how much my grandfather would have loved the whole concept of FaceTime, that he could have just picked up the phone at any time and talked to us face to face without long distance charges or I truly, because that going back and forth between Bermuda and South Carolina, I can remember my father just absolutely losing his mind when I would call my friends in Bermuda and it would be like three, four, five hundred dollars a month, and he was just like mind-blown like, what are you gonna do to pay this bill? Right. You know, nothing.

Crista Cowan 6:00

Yeah. Yeah. So you had these relationships with your grandmothers. Were were anybody in your family storytellers?

Anna Crowley Redding 6:07

So it's interesting because not really, because in the South, uh there, they're storytellers in terms of, you know, you're expected um growing up to be sort of entertaining and be able to hold your own in front of adults and, you know, ask questions and that kind of thing. In terms of like storytelling, I just remember feeling like there were very clear, unspoken rules about what exactly should be said and what should not. So what's interesting to me about that is after my mom passed away about seven years ago, I found her high school writing, like her creative writing. And I found that fascinating because not only was she a talented writer, but our writing voice was similar. So I even said it to my agent and I was like, oh my gosh, doesn't this sound like something I wrote? Because it's so funny to me, and I know you probably see this all the time, but in family lines, how these traits come down and how they express themselves. So I think it probably came from my mom's side. Um uh, but I I can't be sure, but I think it's definitely in there. And of course, the Irish, I mean, all they do is talk and tell stories. So in terms of that longer picture.

Crista Cowan 7:29

Yeah, for sure. I love that. So uh so the reading between the reading and the travel and the family backgrounds with different things, like you kind of came into writing naturally, yeah.

Anna Crowley Redding 7:43

It's always been sort of how I think. Like I think in chunks of text, and I I can't really describe it any other way. Like I'm always like my mind is off kind of in a in a movie, and I'm always thinking from a very young age about writing and and in writing structure and playing around with words in my head. So it's it's in there. I don't think that's how every writer has to, you know, be born with that. But it's definitely, you know, I can remember keeping diaries and journals, you know, as soon as I could write. So um, and I think that is, you know, a powerful thing, especially when you're growing up in a family where there's all this sort of turbulence to be able to write and clear out what your own narrative is, what your own experience is.

Crista Cowan 8:30

Yeah. Oh, that's so beautifully said. So it's so interesting to me because I've known quite a few writers who weren't as good at expressing themselves verbally. And then there are people who are so eloquent who cannot write to save their lives. And I'm hearing just in my few minutes with you that you have this really beautiful blend of both of those things, which is a gift, I think.

Anna Crowley Redding 8:50

Um, I appreciate that. I it's a big part of um, you know, one of the things that I want to personally do and part of writing these stories for young audiences is to encourage them to develop these skills within themselves because I think they can be so powerful in terms of finding your own way, finding confidence and kind of determining who you are and who you want to be.

Crista Cowan 9:14

Yeah, yeah, well said. Well, so we are at the end of season two of this podcast. We have been marching our way through the 50 states in honor of America 250, and we have come to the very first state, the state of Delaware. And it sounds like you have a little bit of a family connection there with your grandmother. Um, but tell me a little bit about how this particular story first came to your attention.

A Footnote That Became A Book

Anna Crowley Redding 9:42

So I was actually doing research for another book for a story about a little girl lighthouse keeper who did her work in Connecticut. And in Maine, there's a lighthouse museum here. And I thought I'm gonna go and learn what I can about the technical aspect, you know, how the lens worked, how what type of oil lamp would have been in that lighthouse, those kinds of questions. And then in there, I see this little um snippet about Stephen Pleasanton, how he was in charge of the lighthouses. The reason that he was given that post is because he saved the Declaration of Independence and all of our family documents from British torches. And I was like, what is this like side note of this museum? I've never heard of this man. I never knew those documents were ever in danger. And every American should know the story.

Crista Cowan 10:37

Yeah, it's so funny because sometimes things like that do just get dropped in footnotes or in margins. As a genealogist, I see that often. And you're like, wait a second, there is a whole story here in those six words or those two sentences that I have to unpack. And so here's what I'd love to have you do. I would love to have you tell us the story of Stephen Pleasanton, and then let's kind of go back and kind of unpack how you got there. So let's start with just how you would tell his story.

The 1814 Race To Move Records

Anna Crowley Redding 11:07

So Stephen Pleasanton um was a clerk at what was then the State Department in Washington in 1814. So America's at war again with the War of 1812, and the British are coming. And Washington is a young capital, it's swampy, it's not that awesome yet. I mean, their ideas of what it can be are great and beautiful, um, but it is nowhere even close. Um, Philadelphia was sort of mainly the governmental hub, uh, for lack of a better term. And so, but he's there in Washington and his job is paper to keep track of it, to stamp it, to write letters, to talk about what's going on, to ask for this, to ask for that. I mean, it was not exciting. And um, anyway, rumors were going around that the British were coming. And so his boss, Secretary James Monroe, went um galloping away to go and spy to see is it true? Is there a British encampment ready to invade Washington? And he gets there and is shocked to see yes, it is true. So he sends a note, he scribbles one off to the president, one off to the clerk to remove the records. The British are coming and in the postscript, the last three words, remove the records. And so a galloping soldier comes with this message for Stephen Pleasanton and it's three floors of documents. And this is like not like a library. I mean, there's scrolls, it's parchment, it's paper, it's kind of a mess. And he's got to figure out not only which documents to take, how many can he take, but what is he gonna pack them in and how is he going to get them out of the city? And that kind of starts this um story, this race against time, where he has to figure out having bags made, then stuffing them, rolling things into scrolls, stuffing them into these bags, commandeering wagons to get them out of the city. And at the time there is utter panic because rumors are spreading and people are starting to flee with their belongings. And so it is quite difficult to convince people to help remove these documents. But everyday Americans came to the rescue, farmers, um, people who lived in the city and offered their wagons and helped um in the effort to get these documents to safety.

Crista Cowan 13:30

That's so crazy. And and so then, specifically, as we talk about our founding documents, um, what was the circumstances around the saving of those?

Anna Crowley Redding 13:43

So he is collecting all the documents and does one final check to make sure he's got them all and then turns around and the declaration of independence is hanging on the wall. And so he's like, oh my gosh, and has to, you know, then um follow the wagons himself to catch up to get it to safety. And the first place they take it to is a mill um just over the chain bridge. And so they're galloping, galloping, galloping, and he looks over and realizes, oh no, we're so close to this munitions factory. And if the British find the munitions factory, they are going to find um these documents. And so he realizes after they've been deposited and the wagons have departed, that he's got to move them again. And so he goes on his horse from farm to farm to farm, begging people to help him move them once again. So this time they move them um all the way um out of the city and away from harm and the documents survive. And the stakes here are this that when he goes back to Washington, he sees that in fact his uh State Department building was burned to the ground. So you can imagine if the British had torched that building with the documents inside, one of two things happened. Either they turned to ash and we don't have them, or they're hanging in the British Museum. So it it really was, you know, an amazing thing that he did.

Crista Cowan 15:09

Yeah, absolutely. And then, like, how was this story ever brought to light? Right? Like he's doing this work and the community is helping. It was not him in a solitary, you know, ride across the river, right? But but this isn't a really well-known story, and it probably wasn't really well known even at the time.

Anna Crowley Redding 15:29

So he was um called to Congress to explain um in sworn testimony exactly what happened. So that's one of the neat things about it is there's a lot of eyewitness testimony from him and from others. And you know, one of the things that happened while he was packing was his um, the State Department shared offices with the Secretary of War. And the Secretary of War confronted him and was sort of a difficult person anyway. It was like, what are you doing? And and Stephen Pleasanton explains what he's doing. And the Secretary of War is basically like, you know, how numb are you? They're not coming here. They would go to Philadelphia. And Stephen Pleasanton is basically just politely says, I'm I'm sorry, we don't agree, and goes about his work. And I find that a really sort of neat thing to share with young people because you can imagine being challenged like that. Like you believe that for our young country, the very words that made us who we are are at risk. Now you are confronting the most powerful military man in the country who says basically you're an idiot. And you have this wherewithal to calmly say to him, I don't agree, and to keep doing what you're doing. I mean, I find that profound.

Why The Declaration Still Matters

Crista Cowan 16:46

It's such a powerful story, but what was it about this story that made you in particular um like what I mean? I've got your book, right? Like I think, like so, darling, rescuing the declaration of independence, how we almost lost the words that built America. And I think that that subtitle is so important. You mentioned that, like, why that's important for children.

Anna Crowley Redding 17:09

I think because you know, today we have digital everything. And um, it's important to understand now more than ever what's real and what's not real. And when you stand before that document yourself in Washington and think about the people who risk their lives to live in a way to break free, to come up with these concepts, to put them to paper, to fight for them, to defend them, then move them. Like there is so much physical sacrifice over those words on that page and what do they actually mean and what do they mean to me personally? Like they were written for you personally, they were written for me personally. I think that's really powerful. And so understanding that for these documents, it it's not just ink on the on the page, it means something, and of course, it is the basis of our law. And we see so much of that now in the courts, um, which is fascinating. But to see where it started, I think is so important. And the other thing that I think is so poignant about the story is this that you can be a regular person, and maybe what you do or who you are is in societal terms insignificant, and yet an opportunity can arrive in your lab to do something courageous and you can come through in a way that makes a real difference. If Stephen Pleasanton could have said, you know what? I've got a family, I've got to get them out of town. And he didn't. He said, These words are so important for every American here, for every American in the future, and I'm do what I can to save them. I think that's powerful.

Crista Cowan 18:57

Yeah, that I think that's absolutely powerful. It's so interesting because we can look to the past for stories of people who've done these incredible things and made these sacrifices, but to bring that into the modern world and to let children understand that they have moments in their lives when they can make those choices too. I think that's just such a gift that you have offered to the world through sharing Stephen's story.

From Newsroom To Children’s Author

Crista Cowan 19:19

I want to talk a little bit about your story. Um, so you started as um an Emmy Award-winning investigative television reporter. How do you go from that to deciding that this is what you want to put out into the world as your gift?

Anna Crowley Redding 19:35

I have always wanted to write kids' books, even when I was 10 years old, always. And um, you know, in television news, it's very difficult uh even now to do that job and have a family because of the nature of it. You know, you are basically on call 24-7. If a plane crashes, you gotta go. And I just did not have the support system that would allow for um someone to step in and care for my kids. And so uh anyway, I left TV News and I was um, you know, I had my son Crowley, I had my son Quinn, and I took them one day to Storytime at the library. And on the way back, I was saying to Crowley, you know what, Crowley, you can do anything you want to. If you have a dream, you can follow it. You know, I'll, you know, one of those kind of rah-rah mom kid speeches. And this little voice in me was like, Well, you haven't even followed your own dream. And I heard it, I was like noted, and I was like, I'm gonna go after it. Like tomorrow. I'm gonna lock in, I'm gonna learn what needs to be learned to sort of repurpose my journalism skills for this. And so that really kind of started me down the road of trying to figure this out. And it was a learning curve. I think that, you know, it's like um, you know, a cook that um switches the type of food they're cooking from French food to Japanese. I mean, you have it's the same idea, but the tools, the ingredients are different. And so it was a learning process. But I I really love it. And I think that there is a thread running through both types, which is kind of a devotion to the truth and to um telling stories that can inspire people.

Crista Cowan 21:32

Yeah. But what a but what a beautiful moment for you to recognize that in order to be integrated in integrity with yourself as you were trying to teach your children something, that you needed to step into that as well. I think that's one of the gifts of children is that they force us to face ourselves sometimes.

Anna Crowley Redding 21:49

They do. They really wake you up in a million different ways. And so it was it's a gift. Um, and I love sharing the publication of these folks with them.

Crista Cowan 21:58

Yeah, absolutely. Well, in your blog, you mentioned that when you sat down to write, like there were some challenges in your life and some grief that you were dealing with and some things. Like, how did that play into this whole part of your journey?

Grief, The Blank Page, And Hope

Anna Crowley Redding 22:12

I think that, you know, when you're sitting before a blank page, and I it could be anybody, any job they're doing, but when you're experiencing grief and then, okay, it's time to return now to work, and you sit down to do that, it is amazing the flood of emotion that calms out of you. And in this particular case, my um infant nephew had uh died from prematurity and just three days old, uh, Jack was his name. And it just um rocked my world. I think it was so poignant to be a part of that. I was there with him and with my brother and sister-in-law to support them, to watch another mom go through that. It was like multiple levels of um experiencing that grief and sadness. And yet at the same time, in the little bits that I had with Jack over the three days of his life, um, one of the things that I did in the NICU was to read to him. And I um it was such a it was so dear. Um, you know, I may not get your childhood with you as your auntie, but I can read um goodnight moon to you. And I think that for me was really deeply powerful and comforting. And it was this point of connection. And then I think when you look at a child that precious and that young who passes away who is not going to have the chance to follow their dreams, it's like I feel especially dedicated to reaching other children and other families. And part of it is, you know, on his behalf. And so it was very powerful. And yet when I opened my computer to write um rescuing the declaration, it was just this blank page. And I was like, okay, well, we're gonna spend this first 20 minutes crying, and then we'll start again. And really, kind of Steven's tale of courage kind of teased out in me that fortitude to say, you know what, I'm gonna go for this and I'm gonna find that strength from somewhere and that creativity will come and I just trust that it will, and I'm gonna write the story for those that need it.

Crista Cowan 24:42

Yeah. Oh gosh, I can't even imagine, you know, like I think so I've grown up with so many family stories, but they're just kind of a part of me and they've always just kind of flowed through me. But to sit down and to take like a whole cloth story and try to spin it up, um, especially when you're sitting in that kind of grief, that blank page had to have been really intimidating.

Anna Crowley Redding 25:05

It was really intimidating, but I think that what I would say to anybody going through that or any other challenge is that, you know, you only have to get one word on the page.

Crista Cowan 25:15

Yeah. And that's not blank.

Anna Crowley Redding 25:17

And it's not blank. And um, you that taking it step by step um really helped. And and you think about, you know, you go back to just in your own research when you're discovering these stories and you see infant loss and you see widows and widowers, and you know it's there. And but they got up and went out and made money to feed their family and all of those things. And you just have to decide that um you you bring those that you lose with you and you you keep

Rejections, Representation, And Breast Cancer

Anna Crowley Redding 25:52

going.

Crista Cowan 25:52

Yeah, absolutely. So at this point, you're you've started writing now, but you didn't even have a you didn't have a literary agent or a uh a book deal yet, but you felt it was important enough to get the story out into the world.

Anna Crowley Redding 26:06

Yeah. So this is like a wild chain of events. So I um worked on this book and I had been to a children's book writing conference. And one of like the perks of going is that you can submit to submit your work to literary agents. A lot of times they're not open to submission. And so you want these opportunities so you can get your work um before people who you admire. And I knew um Amy Joan Piquet, I knew her reputation because let me tell you something. Picking a literary agent is more important than picking a husband. I mean, it is a lifelong thing. No offense. Um, so I I knew who she was, I knew what her ethics were, her integrity, her creative chops. She's a writer herself. Like this was my person. So I had been to a conference, I had sent her a manuscript and she'd rejected it and said, you know, this is not for me, but I do like your voice. So do resubmit. And I thought, oh, okay, that's what you say like when your children put plaid with polka dots. Oh, you know, yeah, that looks great. Um and and then I said to my um fellow writers a few months later, I'm like, oh, they were saying, has anyone submitted to Amy Joan Bucat? I said, I did, and you know, she was nice and whatever. And and they said, well, we submitted to her too, but she didn't offer to read anything else. And it was like ding, ding, ding. And so I um sent her this manuscript. Normally in this world, it moves so slowly. I mean, months can go by before you hear anything. She called me, uh, didn't call me, she emailed me. I mean, 24 hours had not passed. And amazingly, I had said, you, here's this book, you know, a tale of courage, you know, our founding documents at at risk, you know, what would you do? Stephen Pleasanton chooses to save them, blah, blah, blah, blah. And if you like this, I have five other manuscripts for you to read. So she emails me and says, I love this. Send me everything you have. And I sat down on the stairs and burst into tears because I had, I could have wallpapered the house with the number of rejections that I had. And now all of a sudden, one of the best literary agents in the country wants to read all of my work. So I I sat down, I cried. I was just like, sometimes you know, you just know it's gonna work out. And I knew that like my life was changing in that moment. So I got up because I had to get to um the doctor's office because I had like a mammogram um to go to. And so I get to the mammogram, and um I had asked for a mammogram because after my nephew died, we went to church and I was saying a prayer, and I had this like weird kind of um back of my mind, like not even really conscious, like worry about my left breast. And I was constantly giving myself a self-exam in the shower, which is maybe not normal to do that every day, but I did. And there I am lighting a candle, and I just felt this you need to go to the doctor and ask about that. So I went to the doctor the next day, I cried during the entire appointment because I was a mess. I was so grief stricken. And I said, listen, you can refer me to psychiatry. I'm all for it. But first I want a mammogram. So in the meantime, I've gone back to the page. I've um gotten this manuscript together, I've submitted it. Now this big agent wants to see it along with everything else I have. So I'm driving to the appointment and I call some of my critique group friends. I'm like, listen, I need you all night. We've got to get these manuscripts ready. I said they were awesome, they are not. You've got to help me, and so I can send them all off. They said, Great, we're all in. So I get to the doctor, I go for the mammogram, and the tech comes out of the machine and she says, Hey, can you wait just one second? And I knew I have a real big problem. And she came back and she said, Okay, um, that will be it for today. Um, and they are going to call you to come back in a couple of days. So I knew I later found out she had gone to try to find a radiologist to tell me right then and there. So I started the process of going for the biopsy, and the biopsy confirmed what everybody already knew, which was I had breast cancer, and I was 39. I had a kindergartner and a three-year-old. And I was just like, What am I gonna do? And I thought I've I've lost my nephew. Now I've got this, and my dreams are about to come true, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And finally I said, gosh, it is so boring over here on the pity potty. Maybe get up and get going and get those manuscripts together. And so I spent the next few days getting the manuscripts together. I sent them off to Amy Joan Paquette. And then I'm driving to Boston for my pre-op appointment for a single mastectomy, and she calls and says, I'd like to offer you representation. And I really don't remember much more about the conversation. I think she gave me some compliments about my writing, but I was just like, I don't even know that I said anything. I should ask her. I'm sure I was a mess. And then she said, the only thing is that I have some travel coming up, so I won't be able to work with you on getting things out for like six weeks. And I said, Oh, well, great. That works for my schedule too.

Crista Cowan 32:09

That is crazy. Like the timing of like the highest of highs and the lowest of lows, and having those two things happen simultaneously.

Anna Crowley Redding 32:18

It was unbelievable. So when I went to Dana Farber, I made them change all of my paperwork to go from writer to agented writer. Every search and every um, I just want to make sure you corrected my occupation.

Crista Cowan 32:35

Nice. Oh, that's that is insane. And yet here you are like trying to put this story of courage out into the world, and you're facing your own trial of courage, right?

Anna Crowley Redding 32:47

It was so it felt um, you know, it's interesting because I felt like the story was with me. And you look at the actions of other people in history, and it really helps you get your own act together. You, of course, anybody in the world would have given me a pass, but it's really important that I wasn't willing to give me a pass, that I was willing to keep going and to keep doing what I'm I'm here to do. So it was a it was a choice I was really proud of. And um, you know, it's funny because um when I'm talking to my family, to my siblings, you know, one of the things I say about parenting is you know, you don't get to offer them perfect usually unless you get really lucky. But what you can offer is an instruction manual, and the only way to write it is with your actions. Like your words are almost immaterial. And so I thought I just want them to look back one day when they're older and can fully understand what happened. That if they're facing a time like that, like put your shoes on, go outside, go to work, keep keep going, keep going.

Crista Cowan 33:54

Yeah, that concept of keeping keep moving forward is so, so important. I think, especially for children to see that modeled is important.

Anna Crowley Redding 34:04

I think it's it too. And I'm just curious, you know, in your work, if you've seen examples of that when you're kind of going through these genealogical papers, I don't think kids understand how cool like original documents are. Um and in when I bring them like a cache of primary sources, they get excited. But have there been things that you found that that stood out to

Family History In Original Documents

Anna Crowley Redding 34:29

you?

Crista Cowan 34:29

Yeah, all the time. And I think one of the most basic examples, um, the 1910 US Federal Census, they asked this question that seems like it's like, you know, lines of data that you see. And some people get so excited to see, oh, like there's great grandma and grandpa, and you know, they were little kids once, and like there's stories in those lines of data. But there was one question that was asked, and the question was asked of women only. And it was asked how many children have you birthed and how many children are still living? Interesting. And it's just these two little numbers, again, in this like spreadsheet type forms full of data from 1910, and yet those two numbers tell an entire story. And there are things like that all over family history, but that one always gets me because you know, hearing your story about Jack, like like people have suffered loss always. And yet what they did in the face of that loss and how they kept moving and how they chose to keep having children or like keep showing up, or not sometimes, right? Like, and you can see those examples through history. But yeah, that is just one example of many that we see in some of those original documents.

Anna Crowley Redding 35:46

Well, it's very moving and touching, I think, because you can imagine being asked that too. Yeah. Like in the world of um images and sounds that play out in your head, even in answering the question.

Crista Cowan 36:00

Yeah. Some census taker standing on your doorstep that you don't know, just asking you questions about things that in that case feel super personal.

Anna Crowley Redding 36:09

Yeah, it's really an interesting um tidbit. We just did a bunch. I love, first of all, I love Ancestry.com. I'm on there all the time. And we um have been looking into our Canadian um ancestors. And one of the things I love because I was raised, my um grandmother, Jane Crowley, was a very strict, devout Catholic. And um so I was so delighted to discover that um the first of our ancestors who was born in Kenadu, but came to America on that line. That she was born out of wedlock. I was like, I wish I could call my grandmother and be like, guess what I found out.

Crista Cowan 37:02

You know what? People have always peopled. That is nothing new.

Anna Crowley Redding 37:06

Yes, nothing new.

Crista Cowan 37:09

I love

Letting Illustrators Expand The Story

Crista Cowan 37:10

that. Well, because the because you're writing these stories for children, um, the words are important, but there's also artwork. And talk to me about that experience of like, you know, you've spent so much time and so much of yourself into these manuscripts, especially at a time in your life that was so difficult. What does it feel like, or how do you even decide who to work with to bring those images to life?

Anna Crowley Redding 37:37

So it's interesting. So in traditional publishing, the author does not decide. The editor who's in charge of my words and that process, and illustrators have an art director. And so the art director um picks and they have the cream of the crop to choose from. And so I knew who Edwin was um because even though he's Australian, he has fallen into illustrating some important um early um picture books about American history. And so I found that so amusing, but I love his work because it's very like scrolly and seraphy, but it's fun and dynamic. And um, like even this, like this whole concept. So it's very exciting when you're writing, you need to be able to see it to bring the moments alive. Um, but it's important to let go of the process so that the illustrators can bring their vision, their part, their visual storytelling to the page. And um, I've always been delighted with the work that they've done. It's always like, wow, um, because their lens is a little bit different. What they want to highlight is a little bit different. And it's pretty cool to see what they come up with.

Crista Cowan 39:03

You you mentioned earlier, though, that like while you're well, that you see words almost cinematically in your brain, right? Like, how hard is it to let go of how you envisioned it to see somebody else's vision come to life?

Anna Crowley Redding 39:17

It's really not. And um, I know that must sound weird, but it's like when I picture it in my head, it's like a live action movie. And what they're doing is animating it, really. Um, I mean, don't get me wrong, what they do is fine art and they deserve to be spoken about that way. But in terms of how I envision in my head, you know, it's like watching the news versus watching the action movie version of it. So you just have to let go of it. Um, I just had an experience with a book that I have coming out this fall where the illustrator added a last page to the book and it's a wordless illustration and it's kind of a a joke at the end of the book. And I I have never been so charmed. I was just like, that is perfect. So I think, you know, what they bring to the page, you if you're willing to let go and release it, it just comes back and it's so impressive that you're just like, wow, I could have never seen that, envisioned that, asked for that, directed that. It's just, they are so talented.

Crista Cowan 40:27

I love that. And I love that collaborative nature, right? Like you've provided the words, they've provided the pictures, and together that creates something that much more beautiful and impactful out in the world.

Anna Crowley Redding 40:41

And what's really fun with um the historical um, with the the visual facts of the story is turning to diaries. So getting away from your main characters a little bit and turning to diaries to find out what did it look like in Washington when everyone was fleeing. And so letting that information help inform what they're doing. So providing those kind of details so that they can see. Um, and one of the things that was very important with this book was to get that sense of chaos correct and who was in the crowd and to make sure that was accurate. So it was kind of interesting to work with him, you know, on that and to make sure that the architecture and the um things in the house are correct.

Crista Cowan 41:31

Yeah, I love that. That's amazing.

Helping Kids Tell Their Own Stories

Crista Cowan 41:33

So I think you've done Stephen's story so much justice, and I love that it's getting more um exposure out in the world. Um as an as an author, you um, you know, you have a platform to tell these stories, and you're picking intentionally, it sounds like picking stories to tell. But for a mom who just wants to share stories that she's found in her own family history exploration with their with her children, um, you know, she doesn't have world-class illustrators at her fingertips and maybe doesn't feel like she has the skill to write the stories in the way that you do. But are there some tips you would give her for how to share those stories with her own children?

Anna Crowley Redding 42:19

Yes. Um, the first thing is right. Um, it doesn't have to be um perfect. I I don't know anyone, including New York Times bestselling authors, who start with a perfect manuscript. I mean, we call it sloppy copy, we call it sand in the sandbox, because once you get in the sandbox, you can make the castles. So just get down what it is you're trying to say. And then with Stephen Pleasanton specifically, um, I acted out part of the story in my house so that so that I could write it because sometimes that helps you, like especially with the scrolls. Like I needed a line about him taking the documents and and rolling them into scrolls. So I did it until I could come up with bending and tucking. Um, so act it out and have some fun with your kids doing that and and ask them to narrate what you're doing and vice versa. Um, and it's a fun kind of family project, but do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just get it on the page and include the documents. Kids today, um, you know, when I put a 19th century map in front of them, it blows their mind, you know, trying to find the lighthouse tower, they're like that little circle. I'm like, well, think about it. That's what it looks like from up above. And so get these documents, um, even cursive, uh, in front of them so that they can kind of see what it looks like. And that provides its own kind of vibe and and illustration for what you're creating, but definitely write it down. Don't leave these stories to a one day I want to. Go ahead and start.

Crista Cowan 44:03

Yeah. Well, yeah, you started uh our conversation talking about the need for things that are real and tactile and seeing words on a page and touching original documents. Um, I think there's ways that we can create that for our children and make sure we don't lose that.

Anna Crowley Redding 44:22

And I think too, like asking kids like these are the documents that we can find about great grandma or great grandpa or whomever. What documents are we leaving? What trace would we like to leave? Is it a journal? Is it like what is it that we want to do? Um, so that can be kind of a fun question to ask and to brainstorm um with your kids is is what kind of documents, how would we like to insert ourselves into the public record for someone that's trying to learn about us, you know, 200 years from

Courage As A Practice And Farewell

Anna Crowley Redding 44:57

now?

Crista Cowan 44:57

Yeah, we oh, love it. Um so as we wrap up again, not just this episode, but the whole season uh of America 250 and and stories of the states, we think about Stephen Pleasanton, you know, this man from Delaware who saved the Declaration of Independence. Um, you know, as you kind of look back on your journey of telling his story, or even think about maybe what's next and how you continue to tell his story, what does that look like for you?

Anna Crowley Redding 45:26

I think for me, you know, this next chapter for me is continuing to talk about courage and bravery. And I think that, you know, when we look at our ancestors and we talk about America 250, you know, go to the documents and find out what people did to build this country. Go to the documents and imagine what your ancestors went through to come here, what the risk was. And do we recognize that in other people in our communities today? You know, what kind of courage can we bring to the table? Um, and I believe we all are called to bring courage to the table. And sometimes it's the courage to research these stories, to read these stories, to piece it together.

Crista Cowan 46:10

Thank you. Anna, thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing Stephen's story, not just with us here, but with the world. Um, I just wish you continued success because I think what you're doing is so, so, so important.

Anna Crowley Redding 46:22

Well, thank you. I've loved this conversation. And um, I'm glad to be a part of the podcast and a part of the celebration of America 250. Studio sponsored by Ancestry.