When Family History Gets Hard

Jessica Rae 0:00

There's a family secret, and you're just trying to get on the other side of it. It can feel overwhelming, a little daunting, kind of scary, but I have found myself in this work, and yes, there has been pain. There has been a lot for me to emotionally and mentally process. But with all of that, there has also been an immense amount of strength and resilience that I have found. I come from thousands of years of women who have survived and overcome the odds that we're against them.

Crista Cowan 0:48

Stories That Live In Us is a podcast that inspires you to form deep connections with your family, past, present, and future. I'm Crista Cowan, known online as The Barefoot Genealogist. Counting down to the upcoming celebration of America's 250th birthday, you'll meet families from each state whose stories are woven into the very fabric of America. Tales of immigration, migration, courage, and community that remind us that when we tell our stories, we strengthen the bonds that connect us. So join me for season two as we discover From Sea to Shining Sea the stories that live in us. Some people come into family history with tales of being related to someone famous or infamous, or they start digging into their family history and discover heartwarming tales, or tales of courage, or tales of inspiration. But the reality is that families are messy. And all families are messy, and families have always been messy. That is not anything you haven't heard from me before. But sometimes the messiness makes it a little bit hard to wade through. And so sometimes when we start climbing our family tree, we realize that we have to confront really difficult things. Things like mental illness or addiction, things like slavery, things like very horrible crimes. People have always peopled. And those people are in somebody's family tree. And I think every one of us has some of them in our family tree. And so when we confront them, we have to confront what that might mean to us. And it's okay once in a while to take a step back from that branch of your family tree or back from

Jessica’s Curiosity And Childhood Context

Crista Cowan 2:44

that research for a little while and focus on something else. Or you can do what my guest today did, which is plow ahead straight into it, straight through it. And not only that, she has shared it in little minute or two-minute clips all along the way as she's been making these discoveries on TikTok, on Instagram, on Facebook. You may have heard it's Jessica Ray talk about her great-great-grandma Susan. But today you're going to hear the story in a little bit of a different way, and maybe from a little bit of a different perspective. If you're not familiar with the story, it's all about a woman from Pennsylvania who ends up in a mental institution. But we'll let Jessica tell that story. Enjoy my conversation with Jessica Ray. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to get to meet you in person. I've been a follower and a fan for a while now. Um, but I would just love to hear your origin story into family history. How did you, how did you get started?

Jessica Rae 3:53

Um I have, since I can remember, have had an interest in my ancestry. I'm a deeply curious person, and I feel a lot of respect towards my ancestors. And so, like getting to know them has always been something that I've been curious to do. But then I joined ancestry.com in my early 20s and started gathering as much information as I could. And then, you know, as a slow roll for years and years and years. And then um I came across a discovery last year that um changed my life forever. And I made the decision to share that journey and discovery on social media. And um that has been a wonderful journey. And I've been sharing my content now for over a year about yeah, this journey.

Crista Cowan 5:01

Well, I'm really excited to hear that story. Um, I'd love to know just a little bit more about the family you grew up in. Like, were did you know all four grandparents? Were you close with them? What did that look like?

Jessica Rae 5:14

Yes. So I grew up, I was born in California. Um my parents unfortunately got a divorce when I was really, really small. So, like my, you know, my mom and dad have always been separated since I can remember. So I've always visited my dad, um, but I always lived with my mom. I've always known both sides of my grandparents. And then for a short period of time, actually like on and off throughout my life, I've lived with my maternal grandparents. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been it's wonderful. We have a wonderful relationship, but I was always involved with my paternal grandparents too. They lived in California when I was there, and then I would always visit my dad and my paternal grandparents during the summer, Christmases, all of that.

Crista Cowan 6:06

Did you stay in California or did your family move after your parents' divorce?

Jessica Rae 6:10

They stayed in California for a little bit, but eventually we moved to Arizona because my mom remarried and um my stepfather got a job here in Arizona.

Crista Cowan 6:22

Did you have siblings, lots of cousins, or was it just you?

Jessica Rae 6:26

I did not get a sibling until I was 11 and a half, almost 12. And my mom and my stepdad had my little brother. Um, so I was an only child for a long time there. I got very good at independent play and like hanging out with the adults, you know. Um, and you know what? I had cousins on my dad's side, um, but we didn't get to see each other that often. Um, so not a ton of cousins running around frequently.

Crista Cowan 7:04

You kind of had all the adult attention from your mom and your grandparents. Yeah. And so it kind of feels like maybe that might have lent itself a little bit to your connection to the past because you grew up in this adult world, maybe hearing stories from your grandparents ever. Was that a thing?

Jessica Rae 7:21

Not unless I asked. Or there was something that I was curious, curious about and I would ask. My grandparents are of that generation where, you know, we don't talk about a lot of things, right? So um, yeah, there wasn't really conversations being had until I would ask a specific question. And even then, sometimes when I would ask a specific question, it would kind of be, you know, really pulling teeth.

Crista Cowan 7:55

Yeah, when what years were your grandparents born? Mid 40s, 1940s. Okay, so they're just kind of on that cusp of silent generation baby boomer.

Jessica Rae 8:04

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, but that makes sense then. They they it seems in in I could be wrong here, but and I there's something admirable about this, but they always just are, you know, let's leave that behind us, let's focus on the future.

Crista Cowan 8:21

Your innate curiosity then is kind of met with this um, maybe not um not hostility like some people encounter, or even stonewalling, but just kind of like a nobody's nurturing that curiosity in you as you grow up.

Jessica Rae 8:38

Yeah, no. And sometimes it almost feels I don't think it's ever been said to me, but the energy I get back from the conversation is like, why do you want to know? You know, or like, how is how is this important to you? It's almost like they think this has nothing to do with me. Right. And, you know, of course it has everything to do with me, right? It is literally why and how I got here. And they just don't, I don't get the impression that they fully understand that or have the same viewpoint that I do with that. Yeah.

Crista Cowan 9:15

Yeah. Oh, okay. So let's think, let's talk about this discovery you made. Is it on your mom's side or your dad's side? It is on my mother's side. And it is through your grandfather, right? Yes, exactly. So um, how like you're building your family tree on ancestry. How do you stumble into this discovery?

The Census Hint That Changes Everything

Jessica Rae 9:35

Um, I stumble accidentally. Um I have been a member, like I said, for with Ancestry for a number of years. And it it was always something like you put down for a little bit and then you sign back on and you see what's new, what's updated. And it was um March of 2025. I log in, I see that I have a new hint for my great great-grandmother Susan. And I didn't have a lot of information on this uh grandmother. So I click on her profile, and the hint is that she has been located in the federal census record. I click on the federal census record, and it looks immediately very weird to me because it's a bunch of single names, not like households. You know how the households you have the inditation. And I find her on it, and next to her name it says inmate. And then I scroll to the top of the federal census record and it says location Mayview State Hospital. And I go to Google, Google Google, and I put in Mayview State Hospital. And this is in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, by the way.

Crista Cowan 10:47

And for people who aren't familiar with Allegheny County, that's where Pittsburgh is, right?

Jessica Rae 10:51

Correct. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And exactly. So I do a quick Google Mayview State Hospital, and I find out that it is a state mental hospital. And in this moment, this is when I start to get goosebumps and sort of this like reaction to finding out this information because I'm a nurse and I'm a nurse who loves history. And I, you know, before finding out this information, I am aware of the history of how we used to treat mental illness. So finding out this information immediately just I felt devastated for her, honestly. I felt so devastated. So I then click over, and this is where it gets very weird, and I've never had an experience like it in since then. Um click over to Google Images, and I see the picture of Mayview State Hospital, the red brick building, and I recognize it. My with my whole body, I immediately, oh my god, oh my god, I know this place. But it very quickly, this reaction turns um very confusing for me. I get very emotional because the fact that I do recognize this place is impossible. Like logically, it is impossible for me to recognize this building. Like I said earlier, I was born in California, we moved to Arizona. I still to this day have never been to Pennsylvania. I have never been to Pittsburgh, even though my grandfather was born there and raised there. My mom never took me. Um, and then that building, as I researched more, Mavie State Hospital was demolished in like I think 2010, around that time. And so I sort of started freaking out a little bit. Um, because that doesn't

Recognizing A Place She’s Never Been

Jessica Rae 13:10

make logical sense that I would recognize it.

Crista Cowan 13:13

Um before that, like I mean, you said you're a nurse, right? So grounded in science. Yeah. Before that, had you entertained anything outside of the realm of science? Are you a person of faith? Or did you, you know, do you believe in the paranormal? Like, is I mean, was this brand new to you, or is this something that you kind of had some familiarity with to lean into?

Jessica Rae 13:35

I I was I was not raised in a religion. Um, I would say that as a curious person, I've always been open to everything. You know, my stance is always I don't know. So, you know, okay, you know, that sounds good, you know. Um so but I will tell you since then, over this past year, I've definitely had a spiritual awakening of sorts this year. You know, all of these things happening. It's really opened my eyes a lot since having this experience. I have read up on epigenetics and, you know, generational trauma and things being passed down. And still to this day, I I'll never be able to say for certain what that was or why. Um, personally, I think it's it was just something within me and my intuition and where I have come from telling me that I'm at the right place at the right time, and for me to figure out what's this about?

Crista Cowan 14:54

So you think if you hadn't had that visceral of a emotional or spiritual, whatever you want to call it, reaction to that building, that you would have been as motivated to dig into Susan's life as you were, was that the catalyst?

Jessica Rae 15:09

That is such a great question. Nobody has asked me that specifically. I would say without that experience that I had, I would have still dug my heels in. And I'll tell you why. Because when I discovered this about Susan, and and all of this happened so quickly, right? In the matter of minutes, but there was something that I recognized of myself in Susan because I have had my own mental health struggles throughout my life. I have been misunderstood. I have watched immediate family members of mine struggle with their mental health. And it has been very difficult for myself and very difficult for me to watch my family members go through. So without having that experience, I think I would have really felt called to figure out her story because it doesn't sit well with me that I have a grandmother that I would later find out who spent over 30 years of her life in a state mental hospital. And she deserved better than that, and she deserves to be remembered for more than a diagnosis. So because I um I saw something of myself in Susan, I felt that I think that's what made me dig my heels in.

Crista Cowan 16:59

Yeah, that makes sense. So was your first instinct to just dive into records on ancestry?

Asking Family And Hitting A Wall

Crista Cowan 17:05

Was your first instinct to call your grandfather? I mean, you have a relationship with him. Was there any curiosity about whether or not he had a relationship with his grandmother?

Jessica Rae 17:13

So I texted my grandmother right away. So his wife, she's the one who's on her phone and she's actually pretty savvy with her phone. So I texted my grandmother right away. She said, hmm, yeah, maybe kind of sounds familiar. And I was like, okay. Well, they were coming to visit us in just a couple of weeks. So I told myself, you know, I'll wait to bring this up to them in person. Fast forward a couple of weeks, my grandparents are here. Um, we're in the living room, chatting, catching up, and I bring up Grandma Susan to my grandfather. Now, my grandma Susan has had or sorry, she had four grandchildren, one of which is my grandfather.

Crista Cowan 18:02

From one child or multiple children?

Jessica Rae 18:04

Two children.

Crista Cowan 18:05

Okay.

Jessica Rae 18:06

Two children. And so my grandfather is still living, and he has one cousin who is still living.

Crista Cowan 18:13

Okay.

Jessica Rae 18:14

Um, so we're in the living room, and I bring this up. I said, you know, I call him Poppy. I said, Poppy, I found your grandmother in a state mental hospital. And um he actually really isn't facing me at this time. He's kind of still facing the TV. But I asked him, you know, what do you know about this? He said, I never met her. I knew that she was in some type of facility. I was told that she died. To which I said, Oh, that's interesting because she didn't pass away until 1969, which is even after my own mother was born. So, you know, he was well into adulthood with his grandmother alive. And when I said that, that she lived until 1969, he whipped around, and he was surprised to find this information out. You know, his mouth kind of opened and he very quickly composed himself, turned away from me, faced the TV again, and he said, Well, we didn't talk about those things back then, right? Which I know you know sounds familiar for that generation. And um that's all I got out of him.

Crista Cowan 19:49

Well, because he didn't know, or at least didn't remember. Yeah.

Jessica Rae 19:54

No, um, and now since then, um, you know, this has been a really long journey trying to figure stuff out. Since then, I have tracked down my grandfather's cousin, who he has lost contact with decades and decades ago. I tracked this man down, who I've never spoken to in my life. I tracked him down. Um, we spoke on the phone, and he actually told me a very similar story.

Crista Cowan 20:23

And is he older or younger than your grandfather?

Jessica Rae 20:26

He is a couple years older.

Crista Cowan 20:28

Okay.

Jessica Rae 20:29

And um, he tells a very similar story. And in fact, he tells me I didn't even know her name.

Crista Cowan 20:39

What? But were they living there in in the Pittsburgh yet? Oh my gosh. Yes. And did they know their grandfather? Yes. Okay. So the grandfather is the one telling the stories.

Jessica Rae 20:54

Yes. So when I brought it up to my grandfather's cousin, I said Susan, and he was like, Who he said, oh, that must have been my grandfather John's wife. Didn't even know her name. So it's it's clear to me that Susan was a secret or um just somebody we did not talk about um when it came to her grandchildren. Um and her story was lost every time.

Crista Cowan 21:34

And so so you have now spent the last year digging into her story. And I know that there are still unanswered questions, but if you were to tell her story based on what you know now, right? Like, like not your journey of discovering her story, but like actually, like if you were gonna honor her and tell her story, I

Susan’s Immigration And Early Marriage

Crista Cowan 21:55

would love to hear that. Oh my goodness. Okay.

Jessica Rae 21:58

Well, I just Want to say up front that her story is it is made up of strength, resilience, and perseverance. Because my great-great grandmother Susan, she came to the United States in the year 1906 from what is now present-day Slovakia. So she was an immigrant here. Um, she came here to meet um her brothers and start a new life. She meets a man named John and they get married. And they Do you know how old she was at the time? 17 when she came to America. She came alone but to meet her brothers. Yes, exactly. She came alone but to meet her brothers. And she then marries John in when she is 20 years old. Yep. And they uh start a family. My great-great-grandfather John, he goes to work in this steel mill in Pittsburgh, which was a um very common for um immigrants at the time in Pittsburgh to go work in. Um so they have a number of kids, they have four children, and then they have four more who all pass away as babies.

Crista Cowan 23:33

And and okay, first of all, wow. Yeah. Like, second of all, like how how what kind of a time frame are we talking about? Like, is she having a baby every year? Is that what's happening?

Jessica Rae 23:43

Um, about every two.

Crista Cowan 23:45

Okay.

Jessica Rae 23:46

She's having babies about every two years. So when we get to the babies who unfortunately um don't make it, we're talking about the late 19 teens to the early 1920s. Now, two of those babies die from respiratory issues. So I'm thinking Spanish flu time, right?

Crista Cowan 24:11

Or just air in Pittsburgh back then.

Jessica Rae 24:13

Oh, yeah. And correct. Absolutely. Then the the other two babies, they pass away on the death certificate. It says um gastroeneritis. Well, I did some research on this. Oh, sorry, I'm so sorry. It said convulsions related to gastroenteritis. And as a nurse, I'm like, wait, what? You know, like, what are we doing? What's happening here? And I did some research on this, and it turns out that what they actually passed away from was something called summer diarrhea. So we're talking about a time where if we didn't have refrigeration, which my family absolutely did not, because they were living in poverty in Pittsburgh. Um and during the summer months, when things would warm up, and if we don't have refrigeration, maybe we're having to give the baby some milk, some food, that food would spoil and cause some GI issues, which would lead to diarrhea, um, diarrhea. And unfortunately, the baby wouldn't make it. She had her and John had four babies that passed away. And then they had their ninth and final child in um the 19, oh man, 1929. Uh their last son, Joseph. Now, another thing um that I need to mention about their life is that John, my great-great-grandfather, was abusive. I found my grandfather documented being in the Allegheny County Workhouse prison. And he was there on the log for abusing his family. Now we are talking about the year 1932 that he is there. And you know, unfortunately, husbands and fathers during that time could probably get away with um a lot of people.

Crista Cowan 26:43

I mean, was he someone who just had a violent temper, or was he an alcoholic, or like what like any clue about the contributing factors to that?

Jessica Rae 26:51

I think alcohol would have been a contributing factor. Um

Loss, Poverty, And An Abusive Home

Jessica Rae 26:55

I I don't have any other details uh about that, unfortunately.

Crista Cowan 27:00

But we're never trying to excuse that behavior, but we're always trying to understand, right? Like, was he abused? Did like something happened that led him to alcohol? Like, like, or did he just have a violent temper that he couldn't control? Like that, like, and to think about the fact that you've got these children and this wife and they're living with this, but he ends up in prison. So obviously somebody complained.

Jessica Rae 27:24

Yes, exactly. So he got caught somehow, and and and unfortunately, I don't have the records, the Allegheny workhouse prison records. The only thing that exists is this log. And and in fact, this is really terrible. But when I was uh emailing the archives, the Pennsylvania State Archives, they even told me that you know, people who were sent to the workhouse prison, their crimes weren't considered to be serious. So documentation, court records for these individuals are not going to exist.

Crista Cowan 28:08

Right.

Jessica Rae 28:08

Which is, you know, really sad to hear and really awful to hear.

Crista Cowan 28:14

Um, so do you have any indication? I mean, she's from Slovakia. Where was John from? Um, Croatia. Okay, so they come from pretty religious countries. Did they were they Catholic? Were they like okay yes?

Jessica Rae 28:28

They were.

Crista Cowan 28:29

Okay.

Jessica Rae 28:30

They were Catholic. Um, like I said a couple minutes ago, they were living um in poverty. Later, um, in the timeline, I find my great-great-grandfather John living in a shanty on the Allegheny River. So that's, you know, it doesn't get better. Exactly. That is the situation that my my family is in. My great-great-grandmother Susan is is losing her babies. She has an abusive husband. Um, I know that one of her children, in fact, my great-grandfather, um is arrested a number of times as a young man. He is stealing, and um he gets caught, and he is sent to the infamous Morganza Reformatory School in Pittsburgh. And right around this time that my great-grandfather is running into trouble, John goes to the workhouse prison. Susan, which you know, we're talking about the year 1932, but Susan leaves John. I know. I know. How old are her children at this point? So her youngest is hold on one sec, quit math, like three.

Crista Cowan 30:05

Okay. Does she take the child with her? I don't know. Oh my goodness.

Jessica Rae 30:10

I cannot find any indication. Now, all of her other children are much older. Right. Right, because she loves all those babies. I missed it. Yeah, she loves all those babies.

Commitments, Missing Records, And Theories

Jessica Rae 30:20

But Susan leaves John right about the time that he goes to the Allegheny Workhouse prison. He gets out in June of 1932. Susan is first admitted to Mayview State Hospital in September of 1932.

Crista Cowan 30:46

That's suspicious timing.

Jessica Rae 30:47

That's suspicious timing. Now I worked with the Pennsylvania State Archives to get her records because they're old enough. She has been gone long enough, and the records are old enough that I could request them. I requested her records, and the only thing I received back was logs, were logs, admission logs, and discharge logs. Simply a list of names where Susan is listed, you know, the date she was there. There is no diagnosis, no reason for her admission. I did not receive any patient records, um, no patient admission cards that they used to do at that time. I got nothing.

Crista Cowan 31:38

Is there any indication on that log that she's like who she's being like, is he admitting her or is a doctor or great question.

Jessica Rae 31:48

So in the 1932 admission log, there is no indication, but Susan leaves at some point. The discharge log does not exist for when she leaves, so I don't know. I'm thinking it's like 1934, and she comes back in 1938. Now that admission log in one of the columns says court ordered. And so then I went on this very long journey of working with the Pennsylvania uh court system to see if I could find that court order. And you mentioned several minutes ago that I still don't have answers. And that's because that court order does not exist anymore. And I have no records as it pertains to that admission. I did find um a court record from the same year, 1938, just a little bit before she is admitted or readmitted. And it looks like Susan got into a bit of a kerfuffle with a neighbor that she is living with, or near, sorry, next to.

Crista Cowan 34:00

So we've got her going in in 32, we've got her coming out in 34, we know she was back in 38. Was she out that whole time, or were there or we just don't know?

Jessica Rae 34:10

Um, I believe she was out the whole time.

Crista Cowan 34:12

Okay. So then she goes in back in in 38, and how long is she in that time?

Jessica Rae 34:17

She does not leave ever. Um, she dies there in the year 1969.

Crista Cowan 34:25

So the first time it's just a couple of years, but the second time it's 30 years.

Jessica Rae 34:30

Yeah.

Crista Cowan 34:31

Wow. And no real answers as to why.

Jessica Rae 34:34

No.

Crista Cowan 34:36

So what do you like? Do you do you speculate? I'm sure you speculate, but like, do you have a theory that you that you're leaning toward at this point?

Jessica Rae 34:47

Yes. And like so many things in life, it's incredibly complicated and complex. We are talking about a time in history where we did not have the medical understanding and knowledge that we have today. We do not have the diagnostic criteria that we have today. We do not have resources for mothers, maternal mental health, or just maternal health in general. No resources at all. Um a woman who is being abused, no resources for.

Crista Cowan 35:33

Um a woman going through grief, a woman who may have been struggling with some kind of alcoholic addiction herself, a woman with like there's so you know, she could have been going through menopause by that point. Like so many things, right? So many things.

Jessica Rae 35:50

Wow, she and she had the courage to leave her husband. Yeah. So now think about this single woman living on her own, Catholic woman, by the way, right? Right, you know, in the 1930s. I mean, we're talking about so many things that at this time society is almost not gonna deal with, right? They they have oh man.

Crista Cowan 36:24

And if and if her husband had been wealthier, I might have blamed him, right? Yeah, because like I have, I mean, not that my family was wealthy, but I have a great great-grandfather who had his second wife committed just because he didn't want to be married to her anymore and they didn't believe in divorce, right? Like he just had her committed and then used that as grounds for to file for a divorce because he couldn't get it any other way, because he wanted to marry somebody else. Like, men had some power in that situation. And it sounds like maybe John didn't because of his poverty and maybe his own addictions. But the timing of that first commitment is the fact that she left him. Like, was it the fact that she was on her own that got her committed or like led her to devolve? Or did he do it in some kind of retribution? Like, there's so many questions, right?

Jessica Rae 37:13

Yes, there's so many questions. So when I speculate, I mean it is it's very complex. We're just talking about a time where, unfortunately, as a woman, an immigrant um living in poverty, dealing with some really difficult life issues. And unfortunately, I don't think she could get the help that she deserved. And um, it's absolutely heartbreaking to me to know now that she spent her life the rest of her life in an institution. And her grand her own grandchildren who lived right there never knew her. You know, you asked me about my own grandparents at the beginning of this interview. I admire my grandparents so much, and I'm so lucky that I have had this time with them. And that's so unfair for her to not have had that.

Crista Cowan 38:29

Yeah. Well, I mean, you think about those older children, right? Like this daughter who was an adult when this stuff started like really going down, and who probably wanted to have a voice or a connection, or maybe she didn't. I don't know, right? Like, like you, but you wonder how she processed what was happening to her parents and particularly to her mother, and the shame that I think often surrounds things like mental health issues. And yeah, like, do you just shut down and quit talking about it? Do you tell people that they died? Like, uh, it's just baffling

Generational Trauma And Sharing The Truth

Crista Cowan 39:05

to me now, right? Because hopefully we've advanced enough that you know, people are getting the help that they need and that it's okay to talk about it, and that you know, that the shame is not your shame to bear, and it's certainly not the shame of your children to bear, and yet probably there was a lot of stigma in the community around that, their faith community, their immigrant community, their like, yeah.

Jessica Rae 39:28

Absolutely, yeah. Um the shame and guilt, I mean, that discovering this story, I mentioned earlier that I saw a lot of myself in this story, and it really just struck a personal chord with me, beside it being the fact that it's my great-great-grandmother, but it just felt so personal to me. But there is also when I am thinking about Susan and everything she has gone through and how the family has handled it, and then I look at all of the generations to come and the continuance of mental health struggles and the continuance of shame and guilt. And we're not gonna talk about this, and we're gonna sweep it under the rug. It's such a clear generational trauma that is just trickling down, and here I am in the year 2026, you know. I am Susan's great-great-granddaughter. Great, great, yes, right, great-great-granddaughter, and I can still feel these themes in in our family, and and how it is so destructive to keep the secrets, and it breeds shame and guilt, and it's still something we're dealing with.

Crista Cowan 41:07

Yeah. So as you've like made this discovery, obviously you've shared it, you've shared the whole journey, right? Live as it happens on Instagram and like, but how have you shared this with your grandfather?

Jessica Rae 41:24

That has been very difficult. Um, and I hope one day we can have another conversation or more conversations. I respect and love my grandfather very, very much. He has done incredible things for our family. He moved out of Pittsburgh, um, you know, served in the Marines. I mean, he's he's he's an incredible brave man. Um but unfortunately, there is some pain there. Pain and trauma that I don't understand. So when it comes to bringing up this conversation with him, I have to be very careful because I respect and love him so much. That's how I've been handling it recently. I was at my grandparents' house last fall, and I asked to go through old family photos, and I found a family folder of old family photos of his side of the family. And I was asking questions, you know, who's this, who's this, you know, that type of thing. And he came over to the table and took one look at the picture, and his demeanor just totally changed. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, like I said, there is some pain there. I can feel it, I can sense it. And he's just not ready.

Crista Cowan 43:21

Yeah. It's so interesting because we're a generation, I think, that is willing to wade into that because we understand somehow, maybe it's instinctively, maybe it's because we've seen it patterned just enough to know or hope that that's the case, that if we wade through it, that there is healing on the other side. But I think for that generation in particular, it's so easy, so much easier to just like hold it in, right? Because, you know, peace on the surface is better than no peace at all. Um, and so yeah, I I can feel, I can feel through you his pain, which um which is hard. Um Have you been able to have conversations with your mother about it, or are you met with something similar there?

Jessica Rae 44:06

No, my mother is a totally different story. Um I update my mom. She is extremely oh my gosh, I'm gonna try not to cry. Um, she's extremely proud of me. She understands how important this work is, how meaningful this work is to share the story of a woman who was locked away and who deserved a lot better. So she's she's been wonderful for me and a great um a great support.

Crista Cowan 44:51

I love that you have that.

Jessica Rae 44:53

Yes, we do.

Crista Cowan 44:54

Thank goodness. Um you probably aren't in a place right now, uh it sounds like, where you could, you know, answer the question to your grandparents about why digging into your history matters. But if you had to answer that to, you know, a stranger on the street or to, you know, the next generation, how would you answer that? Now, like knowing what you know, even even with the year of what you've been through so far.

Jessica Rae 45:26

Um, you will find yourself in it. It can feel overwhelming and scary to do this work, especially if you know there's a family secret and you're just trying to get on the other side of it. It can feel overwhelming, a little daunting, kind of scary. But I have found myself in this work. And yes, there has been pain. There has been a lot for me to emotionally and mentally process, but with all of that, there has also been an immense amount of strength and resilience that I have found. I come from thousands of years of women who have survived and overcome the odds that were against them. And I am so unbelievably thankful for every single one of them, and it has given me a beautiful perspective on the life that I get to lead now. And so I have found myself in that. And uh it's a a beautiful gift.

Crista Cowan 46:52

It is, absolutely, and that was beautifully

Why This Search Still Matters

Crista Cowan 46:55

said. As you uh, as you think about Pennsylvania, as you think about Pittsburgh, as you think about that state hospital that no longer is standing. Have you had the opportunity to stand there? Or is that something that you're thinking about doing at some point?

Jessica Rae 47:12

Yes. Um that is absolutely on my list. I haven't had the chance yet. You know, unfortunately, I live all the way over here in Arizona. Um, it is on my list. I've, you know, told my husband a number of times we gotta just go for a quick weekend and and go visit um that really important place in in my history. So I I look forward to doing that. I'm gonna have to bring a little a lot of tissue with me. But uh not only that, but because you know, my um Susan is buried there and I need to go pay my respects to her and my great-grandparents, and you know, yeah, it's important to me.

Crista Cowan 48:02

Yeah, yeah, there are there are roots there that run deep, it sounds like.

Jessica Rae 48:06

Yep, exactly.

Crista Cowan 48:07

Well, Jessica, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing your story, but also thank you for sharing Susan with us.

Jessica Rae 48:14

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me on. I any opportunity to share her, it blows my mind that a woman who her own grandchildren didn't even know about, I have been able to share her story, and now millions of people have heard her story. And I'm I'm so thankful for the opportunity and that I yeah was given this opportunity. So thank you. Studio sponsored by Ancestry.