Emily Orton: 0:02

We were a couple years in talking about oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do this in the future, and our oldest daughter said do you really have the guts to do it? And it was a credibility check. And one of the things we often say to ourselves is, if I were the main character in this movie and it's a good movie like what would I want myself to do next?

Crista Cowan: 0:27

Stories that Live In Us is a podcast that inspires you to form deep connections with your family, past, present and future. I'm rista Cowan, known online as the Barefoot Genealogist. I've spent my whole life discovering the power of family history and I know that sharing the stories that live in you can change everything. A couple of years ago, I went to an event called Time Out for Women, where I had the opportunity all day to sit and listen to different inspirational speakers. One of those speakers was a woman named Emily Orton, and as she shared her story of her family and their time on a sailboat, I was so intrigued by this story. Come to find out. My producer, lisa, is a good friend of Emily and her husband, eric Orton, and they do have an epic story, but it's not just the story of the sailboat. It's the story of the way that they have crafted intentionally a narrative for their lives. As we tell family stories, it's easy to look to the past and to find exceptional people who did exceptional things in our family history, but there's also a lot of really ordinary people who did exceptional things in our family history. But there's also a lot of really ordinary people who did very ordinary things. One of the things I love about the Ortons and not just their story on the sailboat, but the story of the life that they have created with their family is this whole idea of being an intentional author and creating a story that you want to create and then looking for the ways to tell that story in such a way that it helps not just inspire your life and what you're doing, but also could be inspirational for generations to come.

Crista Cowan: 2:20

Well, I'm excited to meet both of you. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, absolutely so. I know you have a podcast. I've started to read your book, emily. I've seen you speak, so I do know a little bit about your story, but I would love to hear your story from you in your own words. So, Erik, why don't we start with you? Why don't you just tell us a little bit about your family to start with?

Erik Orton: 2:50

Wow, okay, yeah, so there's five kids. We're a family of seven that's why our book is called Seven at Sea and we lived in New York City since 1999. We went there and I worked in the Broadway industry we still have a place there, but now we live in Salt Lake City. Our oldest is 26 and our youngest is 16.

Erik Orton: 3:05

And we've lived a very nomadic life. In 2014, we lived on a sailboat for a year and that kicked off a lot of adventures for us, things that we didn't really consider possibilities before and we've traveled around the world in interesting and economic ways. Sometimes it looks a little glamorous from the outside, but we've figured out ways to do it on a shoestring and that's been fun and adventurous. And I think since COVID, we kind of took a break from New York City. Now we live in Salt Lake City and we're having a fun time running our own business, our own podcast, and we're delighted to be here with you today.

Crista Cowan: 3:45

Great. Thank you very much. So, Emily, tell me when you think about your kids growing up and maybe the role that story played in your family and in how they were raised, was that part of your family culture?

Emily Orton: 4:00

Huge, a huge part of our family culture. We were living in New York City, like he said, he was working in the Broadway industry, and so we already had a huge belief in the power a better human because of the story that you heard. And one day our oldest daughter, karina, brought home a book from the library by Donald Miller called A Million Miles in a Thousand Years.

Emily Orton: 4:34

I read that it's so good, it's so good. So we already had this passion for story and Eric wrote musicals and things like that, and we're always huge fans of the library. We're always at the library and one of my kids actually used to get in trouble from her PE teacher for falling asleep in class because she was up until one o'clock in the morning reading books, yeah, anyway, so she brought home this book and she said I think you might love it. And I read it and it really helped sort of articulate the way I felt about story. We had read Joseph Campbell talking about the different archetypal stories and the hero's journey and follow your bliss, and we were really looking for something, because where we were in our life was not what we felt like was our best story and we wanted something more. There wasn't anything wrong with it, it was very stable and we had good friends and a good community. We just felt like there might be something more for us. And when we read his story he talked about how the principles of a good story are also the principles of a good life and how it isn't about what you achieve so much as it is the obstacles that you overcome and who you become as you overcome those obstacles. And we were looking to disrupt ourselves, to like put obstacles in our own path that we chose that we wanted to overcome together. And we probably went through I don't know 10 or 15 different crazy ideas that we were trying to pursue, but they all relied so heavily on other people's cooperation and collaboration to make them happen.

Emily Orton: 6:14

And so when Eric had the idea for us to go sailing as a family, that was one that we had more control over and it was really scary to all of us.

Emily Orton: 6:25

But as we kind of like moved along in the process, like first of all he was afraid to even go into a sailing school and learn about it because it felt're going to do this, we're going to do this in the future.

Emily Orton: 6:34

And our oldest daughter said do you really have the guts to do it? And it was a credibility check. And one of the things we often say to ourselves is, if I were the main character in this movie and it's a good movie like what would I want myself to do next? Like I'm playing the main character and I'm also out here as a third party, like producer and director, and you know, we we were really scared and we thought about everything that could go wrong, but we asked ourselves what could go right, and if we were that main character, we would have wanted us to go for it, and it was super helpful that our kids were also kind of in there holding our feet to the coals and as one of us would get cold feet, someone else would warm them up and we'd. Anyway, we made it out the door.

Crista Cowan: 7:35

I love this idea, though, of main character energy right, that's kind of a hashtag these days but the idea that we live our lives intentionally because so many people, I think, and so many families, just kind of live their lives by default, especially when you're in the thick of raising kids and trying to survive. So to make intentional choices, to craft a story arc of your lives, that's really impressive, and the fact that your kids were all in on that, I love that.

Emily Orton: 8:04

Well, one of the things that I loved about it is then, when those disruptions come, that you aren't choosing, you're better prepared to handle it because you have the tools and the strategies that you need and you have this confidence that you've cultivated.

Emily Orton: 8:18

I mean, obviously, things that we weren't expecting came along before we went on a sailboat. When we got the diagnosis that our youngest had Down syndrome, we were like whoa, how are we going to do this? What's our new trajectory? But this made a huge difference and it really did help our kids recognize that they are the main character in their own life and they get to call the shots. And that's kind of how we parented as well. We said you're in the driver's seat, we're in the passenger seat. We could get kicked out of the car at any time and we try to live in a way that we get to to have a seat in the car. But like letting them be the main character in their own life and making their own decisions has made our relationships much smoother.

Crista Cowan: 9:05

That's incredible. Erik, you wrote as a profession, still writes. How has that passion come out in how you've crafted this family narrative?

Erik Orton: 9:16

Well, I think to Emily's point, that we really are the protagonists, the main character in our own story, and I think that there's a couple of things that come to mind when you ask that question. One is that, yes, we want ourselves to make the brave choices, the choices that we would want a main character in a movie or a story to make. We have the capability of doing that same thing. And then I know we're talking about genealogy and ancestry as well, and so I was thinking on our way here, when I am writing a story, because I love history, I'll write historic stories and I like to do a lot of research. A lot of information that you find in research is about big, sweeping events. Yet the stuff that I'm really looking for is all like what time of day did this guy get up every day? What did he eat for breakfast? What was you know? How would he wind down at the end of the day?

Erik Orton: 10:09

Those little nuanced details are.

Erik Orton: 10:12

They make up the difference between a boring character and an interesting character, and so I'm very mindful of that in my own life, and you know I don't force any of that on our kids, but you know, I think those small choices, there's this dynamic between small choices and big choices that shape our story and, and I think in the future, if somebody in my ancestry is reading my story and they're getting to know Eric Orton, um, you know, they're going to learn a lot about that part of my life, because I think I think it matters.

Erik Orton: 10:48

You know, those, those small they I would say this the things that seem boring to us right now, in our day-to-day rhythm, are actually going to be the things that are fascinating to anyone in the future that is learning or reading about us. And so I guess I would just say that that there's these moments where we can sort of put on our protagonist persona and say what do I want me to do? And we make the brave choice or we go for the thing that feels daunting, because that's what you want a main character to do. But then there's also the part of us that's regular, everyday, mundane, that is actually really fascinating to the future generations. I think that's my personal opinion.

Crista Cowan: 11:34

I agree, yeah, when I think about my ancestors, for example, and the pieces of their stories that I know, in some cases it is the brave choice, the big thing, right? He crossed an ocean in 1830 with a wife and two small children to start a whole new life, but also it's the fact that every single time he was asked to make a sacrifice, he did it.

Crista Cowan: 11:58

Or every single morning he woke up and milked the cow, or every single like. The things that made the character of the person are not always just the big choice, it's those daily habits and routines. I have a great-grandfather who, whenever my dad talks about him and tells stories about him, he almost always brings up the fact that he only liked cold food, and so he would let his food get cold before he would come to the dinner table because he didn't like hot or warm food. And it seems like such a random thing, but that one thing that he did every single day tells you, I think, more about his character and personality than a lot of other stories that could be told about him.

Erik Orton: 12:37

For sure. I mean, I recently discovered the story of some of our ancestors that are buried near where we now live in the Salt Lake City Cemetery. Help me remember the name of my Sidney Thomas, sidney Thomas. Sidney Thomas lived to maybe be one year old, but he's buried in the cemetery near where we live and Emily and I walk there regularly and I read his story. My brother sent it to me. He found it on you know, one of the websites and the little choices that led his parents to come from England to the United States and, and you know, they had this baby that didn't live very long and is buried in the cemetery to to know sort of the details of their lives.

Erik Orton: 13:18

Yes, there were some dramatic choices, but there were some really small nuances that helped me feel connected because they were the kind of, you know I worked in the theater industry and so that's a big part of you know my mind and sort of a little bit of identity. And they, they love to sing, they love to entertain and just know that I have this sort of connection with them in that way. They, they didn't work on Broadway, they didn't tour, you know, they they lived in small towns and they, they did mining, but still they found joy in that and they found joy in their garden. And that kind of thing helps me feel like you know they're real people and and yet they did cross an ocean and they did lose children at young ages and all that and you have to overcome that, and so I draw strength from them, but at the same time I just feel like you know we're connected.

Emily Orton: 14:14

Yeah.

Crista Cowan: 14:15

Yeah, and that is ultimately for me one of the things that I love the most about family history, and even the stories that we're crafting as family narratives now for the future, is that connection, those threads of connection that link us together. As your kids are getting older, emily, are you seeing that that's worked for you and your family?

Emily Orton: 14:36

Well, I think a lot of the things are carrying through some of the traditions that we have about living intentionally. So, for example, when I was a young mom, I stole this idea from my sister-in-law. She had a hundred square grid on her refrigerator and it represented her life. Every square was a year of her life and she had highlighted the years when her kids would be home full time and when they would probably go to school. She put it at half and you could see all the decades prior to children and the many decades after children, and that really changed the perspective on a good day or a bad day. You know, this isn't going to last forever and that can either be poignant or a relief, you know, and so we always had those kind of things going on. And then we started a tradition in our house where we just put up a blank piece of paper at the beginning of every month or wherever in the month you remember to put it up, write the month and the year, and then throughout that month, everybody can just write something that stood out to them, and it might be something funny that was said, or a test they passed, or something they went to, or someone came over to our house and it's a way of keeping track of all the things that are happening in our life. That isn't calendar-based, it's just like wow, look at all the life that we had each month.

Emily Orton: 15:58

And some of our married kids have continued that into their families, and they definitely are have told us like the kinds of things that I'm looking forward to or willing to try, because I saw you guys go for it and I saw how hard it could be and I so I know that when it's hard, that's normal. Instead of that, it means I'm wrong. It has, you know. They have continued to travel around the world on their own and they plan to live abroad, but they also are really grounded in wanting to be connected to family and knowing that it's not the flashy stuff that matters. They know how hard it is and what a drain and a grind it can be to actually live that way, and so I really appreciate that they are so intentional about how they're living, and the thing is they aren't making the same choices. They're not trying to clone our family culture, but what they are doing that's the same is that they are deciding for themselves what matters most and then living that way.

Crista Cowan: 17:01

So I like that, this concept or this theme of intentionality is so important and it sounds like you've created a family culture of that. I have tried to do that in my own life. I wish more people lived their lives more intentionally. But there's also this theme in your book. It comes out about control, right Versus like this idea of life often feels out of control or we're living it by default.

Emily Orton: 17:26

And, Emily, you talked about intentionally placing obstacles in your way, but ultimately that shows a lack like you lose control in that moment, it's true, but it's good for you to learn that Actually, the term we like to use I know we've used main character and we've used hero and we've used protagonist we like to talk about it as being the navigator, because as a navigator, you know you don't have control over so many situations, but you always get to choose how you're going to respond in those situations. In our family, this is one of our family traditions that anytime a character in a movie says I had no choice, I have a little freak out, or everybody looks at me and we all say, like you always have a choice. You know that's definitely one of the themes that I hope will carry on through our generations is that you always have a choice. And so, anyway, that's why we've chosen to primarily use the word navigator, because it gives you power, even when there's so many things that you can't control.

Crista Cowan: 18:31

Yeah, I love that, that's beautiful.

Erik Orton: 18:32

Just to add on to that, because when you are sailing, the things that you can't control are the tides, the wind, the you know the swell in the ocean, all those things in the ocean, all those things. Yet you know to your point, emily, how you can. You always have a choice of how you respond, and you can still get to where you're going despite all the obstacles that are coming your way, despite the wind direction or the swell direction, and so there's always, that's always. You know, the circumstances in all of our lives are always going to be changing and it's going to be different for everybody. But if we can choose our destination, if we can be patient and determined and and also develop some skills, you don't just you know, you don't just.

Emily Orton: 19:14

You don't mind the little seasickness.

Erik Orton: 19:16

And you may you know you may get a little bit queasy every now and then. Yeah, it's really when you realize that so much is always going to be beyond your control and yet you can still travel in the direction that you want to go and if you're patient and persistent, you, you can and will arrive. That's a very empowering thought, and if you can go through your life that way, then then you're in a good place, and that's something that I, that's a legacy that I would love to leave to our kids and future generations that that you can be the navigator in your own life.

Crista Cowan: 19:45

Yeah, I've got this thought.

Crista Cowan: 19:48

That's kind of like, I think, still trying to form in my brain, so it may take me a second to get it out.

Crista Cowan: 19:51

But there's this you talk about the weather and the swells of the ocean and the tides and how we don't have control over those things, but you know they exist and there are some predictable patterns and there is sometimes some warning, and I think one of the things that I see in a lot of people's lives is they try to ignore that those things exist and then freak out when they happen, whereas if you can anticipate these things are going to happen, life is not going to go the way that we planned.

Crista Cowan: 20:21

There are going to be obstacles that come up that we have no control over, but if I anticipate that, then how I choose to react is going to be probably different than if I try to ignore them or act like they don't happen or be so surprised when they do. And so there's something very, I think, meaningful about even just as we're writing our own stories recognizing that change will always happen. And when we recognize that change will always happen, then how we choose to respond to it will be different than if we try to always keep things the same.

Erik Orton: 20:59

To that point, one of the things, because when our daughters were asked, we came back.

Erik Orton: 21:05

We asked them what are some things that you've learned, you know?

Erik Orton: 21:07

As we sort of made our way back home and our daughter Allison said you know, I've learned to be comfortable being uncomfortable and that when we get comfortable dealing with it and our confidence rises because we have a lot, we can look back and see this is all the change that's happened in our lives and I've been able to overcome it, work through it, however you want to describe it.

Erik Orton: 21:40

When you have that that peace and calm of knowing that whatever happens, I can figure it out, then we don't fear change, because it's really the fear of change that gets us. That's fear and worry. And if we can just build trust in ourselves and say that we are navigators, I'm a good decision maker and I'll probably make mistakes, but I can figure it out and I've overcome everything thus far, if you can carry that into whatever unpredictable future you know awaits you, then you can do it with a peaceful heart and that's that's just something that I think is the greatest gift. We don't, we don't get to a place of peace by waiting for it to just be bestowed upon us. We can, we can, we can build it as a skill that then serves us forever.

Emily Orton: 22:31

Beautifully said. I think we always trip over worry or fear first and then we say, oh, I'm worrying. Okay, how do I respond to this? Because it comes so instinctually almost Just go straight to worry.

Crista Cowan: 22:43

Yeah, instinctually, almost just go straight to worry. Yeah, yeah and, and as you're, you know, heading out on the open seas with your children, I have to imagine there's a lot of worry and fear just built into that experience. And so, as you talk about developing this muscle of of peace, I love that that it's a practice of peace. Is there a particular experience or story that stands out from that experience that helped you gain that?

Emily Orton: 23:09

Yes, I don't know which one he's going to say, so I'm very curious too.

Erik Orton: 23:15

We're often asked so did you encounter storms while you were out there? And the short answer is yes, lots of storms. The first time we were caught in a storm we were doing an overnight crossing. It was the first time we were doing a crossing with our kids at night and we were going from St Martin to the US Virgin Islands, and about 3 o'clock in the morning my daughter Allison and I were up on watch, because somebody's always awake if the boat is moving.

Emily Orton: 23:40

And she was 15.

Erik Orton: 23:41

And she was 15. And this storm snuck up on us. Up until then it had been clear, starry skies, you know, peaceful. We were just sitting, you know, together listening to music, making sure we didn't run into anything. It was super easy. And then the wind picked up, the swell picked up and the boat was moving way too fast. And, long story short, pounding rain, freezing cold. The sails were going to tear off the boat. We had to turn it into the wind and just drive the boat straight into this storm all night long until we reached the backside. The reason you turn into the wind is to take the pressure off the sails. So we, we, we got through this storm. But I was so scared, I was so afraid, all night long and we made it, we survived, I guess. Sidebar, we learned that from our friends that another boat was crossing the opposite direction, much bigger boat, same storm. They had their mass ripped off and had to cut it loose and drop it into the sea. So we knew this was not a joke. This was like a legit situation was not a joke, this was like a legit situation and that was scary.

Erik Orton: 24:48

Fast forward six, seven, eight months into the future, when we've now been living on a boat for a while. We would sail through two, three you know I'll call them squalls or storms a day. The big difference is that we knew what to do. We had, we had gained a skillset, and so, even though it was in many ways the same situation, we're just like okay, we got this, we know what to do. And so, yes, there are storms, and our ability to overcome them and acquire that skill set is what grants us peace.

Erik Orton: 25:22

And Emily and I have talked about this in our marriage. When we were newlyweds, we were on a small canoe that could easily tip over, and we've been through enough challenges, we've been through enough upheaval as a couple, and now we've been married what? 28 years. Now we feel much more like a tanker ship. It's going to take a lot to tip us over. Do we still have hard days and hard weeks? Yes, do we still distill? Things still upset us? Yes, but you know ballast. You know the, the deep part of the boat that's heavy, that keeps you centered and upright, that has grown, and I think we can each develop personal ballast that will just keep us steady no matter what's happening.

Emily Orton: 26:04

And so I would share a completely different experience if you have time. So for me it was before we even left the country and we were riddled with fear and we actually listed out all of the things that we thought could go wrong and we got dramatic right, like we could be financially ruined and we have to separate our children out to different relatives and you know, and the family's ashamed of us, you know, it got pretty dramatic.

Erik Orton: 26:33

We wanted to go all the way.

Emily Orton: 26:39

Yeah, like that's I'm really good at that, so but then we did. What really made the difference is we filled in the other half of the picture and we literally made a list of all of the things that could go right. That's why our podcast is called What Could Go Right. That question has been so powerful for us, and we use our imagination like our imagination is so powerful and we usually use it to imagine negative outcomes, and that's worry, and so we just tilted it a few degrees the other direction and said let's use that same power to imagine some positive outcomes, and what we've noticed is that those negative things are very unlikely to happen. They almost never happen, and it's a huge drain on your energy.

Emily Orton: 27:23

But the positive things so many of those happened were likely to happen, and sometimes even better than we had ever imagined, and so for me, that was a huge example. We actually just still use that practice today, and sometimes we'll literally write out here are all the things like the excuses that I'm making, and then we rewrite the sentence, as that's the reason why I should do this. It's a very uncomfortable practice. I still don't love it, but it's powerful and it has helped us to continue to stay open to opportunities and stay optimistic and when things are hard, and so that's like a literal practice that anyone could do that made a huge difference.

Erik Orton: 28:04

Can I jump in on the what can go right, please? Column? When you have a what can go wrong list, it's usually pretty short and pretty unlikely, and when we created our what could go right list, first of all, as Emily said, it was very long and also very likely. Here's what made the difference for us is we knew that if we didn't do this trip 100% for sure, none of this would happen.

Emily Orton: 28:25

None of the what could go right.

Erik Orton: 28:26

Yeah, none of the what can go right stands a chance if you don't step into that situation, if you don't cross that threshold. And so just by creating a sense of opportunity loss when you realize everything that you're giving up if you don't go for it, that can be a very strong invite and help us overcome the worry and the fear that's keeping us stuck. If you can paint a picture of the powerful, positive draw of the thing that awaits you, that can go a long way to getting you out of the negativity or the you know, the rut whatever you want to call it that you're in, because sometimes we don't. We need, we need help to get out, because we it's the devil, you know, beats the devil you don't. And so if you can really paint that positive picture and just know that none of that happens, none of it happens unless you go for it, that was really strong for us.

Crista Cowan: 29:18

Yeah, there's some psychological studies that have been done about this concept that you're talking about, which is our primitive brains are designed to keep us safe.

Crista Cowan: 29:31

That is their job. The fact that we naturally tend toward worry and fear and safety is how we were designed to be kept safe. But also, if we go back to that concept of choice, that idea of agency, means we often have to overcome that or step over that intentionally to make a different choice. So this what could go right list concept, I think is so powerful in helping us craft intentional lives, craft intentional stories. I also think, as parents, it's such a powerful thing to do for your children, to raise them with that kind of a family narrative that this is who we are, this is what we do as we make intentional choices through our lives. And so you know, as you look kind of to the future, as you think about the choices that your children are making now or even the stories you want your grandchildren telling about you, is there anything any like? You know, eric, you talked about the daily mundane things that make a character, but is there a story, a choice, a moment that you want your grandchildren talking about?

Emily Orton: 31:11

Well, I think the reason that we actually wrote this book for me was, at the very least we'll collect our thoughts and understand what this experience was, could know this about us, that they had this in their history. Because I had read a study that when people know that their ancestors were resilient, it helps them be more resilient. And so I was like, at the very least we could offer this up, you know, to future generations and we've been so grateful for other people who've run it or found inspiration in it. But that for me, just the idea of being able to make your own choices and be the navigator in your own life, those are the things that I want them to take forward, and it's just, even if it's just like hey, they went for it. Even in our book you see us being sad or petty, or, you know, having to forgive each other, like we try to be as honest as we could so that it would be a real picture for them to see. Real people can go for it picture for them to see.

Erik Orton: 32:05

Real people can go for it. I guess I just want them to know me. I want them to know that I'm not perfect, that I'm human and that I tried and I didn't always succeed and sometimes it worked out, but that they can try. And it might not always succeed, but that sometimes it will work out and probably more often than not. And I would love for them to just feel hopeful and encouraged by my story to create their own story.

Crista Cowan: 32:27

Well, I was going to ask you what you hope for the future, but I think you just answered that and answered it beautifully. As a genealogist, I spend so much time looking into the lives of my ancestors people who didn't leave those clues, people who didn't write down the stories they wanted us to know about them, and often that means that they come out a little bit as a caricature of because I focused on something, or even just because we're raised in a society where so much of entertainment and so much of the stories we consume are the good guys and the bad guys, and there's no nuance or complete person being shown as a character. And so when you talk about your kids wanting you to know your whole self, the imperfections as well as the grand adventures, the fact that we need to take the opportunity to write our own stories and be intentional, not just about the stories we're living, but the stories that we're sharing and leaving behind. So maybe the question then, instead of what you hope for the future, is what's next?

Erik Orton: 33:27

Oh man, we're at a pivot point in our lives. Our kids are turning into adults, they're getting married, and so we are on the threshold of entering Orton family 2.0, which is kind of cool and so we're going to have a grandbaby. Yeah, I think we're allowed to say that we're going to be grandparents this fall and we're very excited about that. And also we're growing our own business. You know, after COVID, emily and I kicked off a business called the awesome factory and we're having a lot of fun doing that. You know, we had a really impactful experience when we went sailing and we're really enjoying offering that to other people.

Erik Orton: 34:03

We take people sailing all over the world and sometimes it, you know, it'll be a boat full of people and sometimes they don't know each other and sometimes they do, but it'll be a mother and a daughter that come out together, or two sisters, or a father and a son. Sometimes we'll take a whole family and they get to have a totally unique, beautiful experience that is going to shape their lives and just hearing from them afterwards, you know how this was a pivot point in their lives or how they feel so encouraged to pursue their. You know, whatever it is that's been kind of holding them back, and and so I feel like passing the baton to other people and and introducing them to something about themselves and something about the world that they never really thought possible. That's a really satisfying thing that we're doing right now.

Emily Orton: 34:50

Yeah, I was just going to say we've had guests ranging from age 16 to age 78, and they all have incredible stories and this becomes, like you said, a pivot point for them, as they say oh, I'm going to live a little more bravely, going forward.

Crista Cowan: 35:07

So fun. Well, if people want to follow along on your adventures. And what's next? Where can they find you?

Erik Orton: 35:14

They can go to theawesomefactorynyc. That's our website. If you go forward, slash sailing 2024, you can learn all about these trips we were just talking about. And then we're also on social media the awesome factory NYC Instagram, facebook, youtube.

Emily Orton: 35:27

Yeah, if you love the sound of our voices. We, our podcast is called What Could Go Right, and we have hours and hours of banter.

Crista Cowan: 35:37

I love it. Well, I have listened to a few episodes and I have started your book. I'm excited to finish that. We'll put links to things in the show notes. Thank you both so much for being here.

Emily Orton: 35:46

Thanks for having us.

Erik Orton: 35:47

Yeah, this has been great.

Emily Orton: 35:48

Thank you for making this.