Kevin Giddins: 0:03

So I've always wanted to find that information. And then a wonderful friend, a dear friend, who worked at Ancestry, said hey, you ever think about doing a DNA test, what? And so by taking a DNA test, I was connected to family and boom. Life changed.

Crista Cowan: 0:20

Stories that Live In Us is a podcast that inspires you to form deep connections with your family, past, present and future. I'm Crista Cowan, known online as the Barefoot Genealogist. I've spent my whole life discovering the power of family history and I know that sharing the stories that live in you can change everything. I have heard about Kevin Giddens for years. We both used to work for Covey Leadership Center decades ago, so I'd heard of him but I'd never met him. So a few years ago, working at Ancestry, when my producer, Lisa, told me that she knew Kevin Giddens, I was kind of pleasantly surprised by that little bit of serendipity. When Ancestry started doing DNA testing, Lisa approached Kevin, who was adopted, to see if he would be interested in using DNA to help find his biological family, and I got to help a little bit with that journey of discovery.

Crista Cowan: 1:25

In this episode I sit down with Kevin and his daughter, Camlyn, and we have a conversation about that journey. I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation I had with Kevin and Camlyn, not just about their journey to discover biological family, but also the really deep spiritual lessons and connections that they have been able to make with the ancestors. Today I have with me Kevin and Camlyn Giddens, father and daughter, and I'm so glad you're both here. Thank you for coming.

Kevin Giddins: 1:57

Well, thanks for having us.

Camlyn Giddins: 1:58

I'm excited. I appreciate your invitation.

Crista Cowan: 2:00

Yeah, absolutely. So. I have been privy to your story, even though today is the first day we've met in person, because I worked with a woman who helped you on this journey of discovery, but I'd love to dive into that a little bit more. Before we do, however, I'd like a little bit of background. So, kevin, you were not raised with your biological family. Would you like to tell us a little bit about that?

Kevin Giddins: 2:25

Yeah, I'm the product of New York foster care system and I was never legally adopted for a lot of various reasons. But growing up in the foster care system, I always longed to find out who my family was. Even though I had a wonderful foster family the judges were great and I really consider them still my family but I always longed to find out who I really was, who I really belonged to. Growing up, to find people who look like you was very important, and so I was very fortunate to have a great friend help me to find my family.

Crista Cowan: 2:58

I love that. So you were raised with the last name Jones, correct? When did you always know that Giddens was your biological last name?

Kevin Giddins: 3:05

Yeah, it was an open adoption, as far as, when I say open, I always knew that I was adopted or foster child and I always knew that Kevin Giddens was my name, but I grew up as Kevin Giddens Jones, okay. And then when I came to college and you know traveling the world and have to get a passport with my legal name, I switched to Kevin Jones Giddens.

Crista Cowan: 3:27

What was the impetus to want to actually make the discovery about who, specifically, your biological family was? Was there a moment that made you kind of say, oh, I want to make this journey?

Kevin Giddins: 3:38

I think five years old, six years old, and you're seeing other kids have family, as I mentioned, family and brothers that look like them. And my mother was wonderful. She had fostered over 35 kids. So you can imagine living in a home where every few months you have different brothers and sisters coming in and out like a revolving door. I had white, black, disabled, you name it. I grew up with that, but can you imagine it was great to be in a diverse family, but always longing to say where I belong. So I've always wanted to find that information. And then a wonderful friend, a dear friend who worked at Ancestry, said hey, you ever think about doing a DNA test, what? And so by taking a DNA test, I was connected to family and, boom, life changed.

Crista Cowan: 4:26

So you took a DNA test spit in a tube. Yes, ma'am, that's the way that it all started to unravel. When you first looked at your results, did you share them with your family? Did you have some kind of an immediate reaction before any actual discovery was made?

Kevin Giddins: 4:41

I think it was like if you saw the movie Ratatouille. I just stopped and all of a sudden, my mind, I left my body and I was listening to my friend give me a debrief of my results and I was learning as she was sharing it. I was seeing myself go back to New York, go back to Africa, go back to the beginning of the world. I just saw myself transition to those periods and it was surreal. It was out of body experience.

Crista Cowan: 5:13

Yeah, you know that stuff is in you, but to actually see it in print is a different experience. Right Did you? Were you privy, kevin, to those early results.

Camlyn Giddins: 5:22

Yes, I remember I feel like I mean, I'm the kind of technical person in the family so I feel like helping facilitate. How do we see results on Ancestrycom? And like looking at the map and reading all those stories was really cool to have that visual. And like, like dad was saying, to imagine the journey that it took for my blood to arrive where it is now in time.

Crista Cowan: 5:43

As the connection started coming. Do you remember like the first biological family member from your DNA match list that you were connected with? I don't. If I remember correctly, it wasn't your mom. It was a match, right.

Kevin Giddins: 5:53

No, it was a cousin and the cousin had information and the cousin led me to my mother.

Crista Cowan: 6:00

Yeah. So tell me about that moment, that moment you first knew who she was, the moment you first spoke with her.

Kevin Giddins: 6:06

Well, I was actually in Boise, idaho, because I know the exact place. I was having dinner with a friend and I was able to connect. I had left messages for her and she had finally called me. And so, in Boise, idaho, I left the restaurant, went out into the street and started having this conversation with this woman named Jacqueline Deborah Giddens. And the conversation, at the very beginning, said I was doing a DNA test, I'm trying to find my mother, because now that I'm talking to the actual person, I can say the word my mother before I could say I'm looking for a family member. And I gave her information and she said these words I am the woman on your birth certificate. I gave her information and she said these words I am the woman on your birth certificate and started crying. She started crying.

Camlyn Giddins: 6:50

And go ahead. Kamala, I feel like you're I mean from what you've told me, from the story, like I have the conversation in my head, but as one of the things that she said was tell me your birthday, Like that was the only thing she needed.

Kevin Giddins: 7:02

That was a very so Kamala's right. So him boys got out in the street trying to find out if this is really her. I said I'm looking for my mother. The only thing I have is a name. And she said what's your birth date? And I said December 17th. And she said do you know? I have been praying every December 17th. I would say a prayer that wherever my son is in the world, that he would be protected. So that told me she was remembering me, that I wasn't just giving up that every December 17th she was remembering me. And she said I am the woman on your birth certificate. And so we just probably cried for three hours and then started talking again.

Crista Cowan: 7:44

Kimlyn, do you remember when you first heard that story?

Camlyn Giddins: 7:47

Yeah, Same emotions, like right now, how emotional it is to picture a woman praying for her son that she's been separated from, and I honestly have the sense that that is what a lot of women have done that have been separated from their kids. African-american, whatever your culture is, if you've been separated from your children, that just felt so deeply rooted for me, so I love that detail.

Kevin Giddins: 8:14

And if you think about it visually, it's like the links have been broken and now links have been connected Physically Physically broken and now they're connected and it's beautiful.

Crista Cowan: 8:27

Yeah, thank you, and thank you for being willing to be emotional about that. I think it's important that we recognize that for some of these women, that has been a lifelong wound for them and that there is an opportunity to heal that wound in some cases, and so it's just so beautiful that you were able to have that experience with her. You then made plans to actually meet her in person. Or was that an immediate thing that you wanted to do, or did that take time?

Kevin Giddins: 8:53

Yeah, I was like, where can we see each other? And so, yeah, we made plans to join our families together. So we arranged to meet in South Carolina to meet the family and my daughter documented that experience. She's a graduating film and she documented that experience in. We have the footage, we have the memories. It was surreal to see us meeting for the first time, to see our children meeting for the first time, not knowing if this family is going to connect because through the years a lot of things could be different, but we connected so beautifully. Our children look alike, they play alike. My sister has the same car I had. We have the same favorite colors.

Kevin Giddins: 9:34

A lot of things I discovered in my mother and who she was. I realized DNA is powerful as far as my personality. Oh, that's why I do that. Oh, that's why I do that. Oh, that's why I like that. I'm someone who is very accommodating to people. And to have a mother who's unapologetic, I really discovered you know what I can be myself. It's not be your authentic self. Be your best self, because sometimes we don't want your authentic self, because that's not a good thing. So we want you to be your best self, and she taught me to be my best self.

Crista Cowan: 10:07

Wow, there is so much to unpack there. I love this idea of you just taking the whole family out to meet her Ken. Was everybody in the family on board with that idea, or was there any hesitation around?

Camlyn Giddins: 10:22

that oh, so excited. I don't think there was any hesitation at all.

Kevin Giddins: 10:28

I think the hesitation was on my other family's side. It was they were nervous. They were telling my mom, mom, you don't know this guy DNA, he could be anyone. And my sisters and brothers, if they were here, they would all tell you. They were skeptical, they were nervous about meeting us. And I looked at my children. There was no denial that Kevin was a part of this family.

Crista Cowan: 10:53

Carolyn, you decided to document this experience. Tell me what the impetus was, why you wanted to do that, and then how you went about it.

Camlyn Giddins: 11:01

When I was studying film, my family stories were just a frequent source that I came back to essentially, and so I mean I'd already done films in our home, um, here in utah she's very humble.

Kevin Giddins: 11:15

She did a film and won first place in new york film festival for a documentary, and so she's being very humble that's very sweet of you, dad, um.

Camlyn Giddins: 11:24

So yeah, and especially with this story like this, I was like of course I need to to film this meeting this family for the first time, so it was fun. I remember filming, even just like the beginning conversations of like planning on the phone where we're here driving to the house and then like finally meeting at the house, and I had to just like set up the camera and let it be still while we were just all meeting each other.

Crista Cowan: 11:51

Are there things you think you saw from behind the lens, with that perspective, that maybe people in the moment weren't necessarily seeing or experiencing?

Camlyn Giddins: 12:02

That's a very good question. I just feel like the I mean I'm biased perhaps, but like I felt like the love came through really clearly in our embraces and how we look at each other, um, the laughter I. I saw mama jay's, what we, what I call, what I call her, jacqueline deborah giddens just I, I see shots of her, like giggling, like a child, essentially, and capturing, capturing things like that. So it's an audiovisual journal now and when I go back and watch it I can notice something different. Or maybe at that time in my life I'm in a different place and I need a different piece of knowledge and so something else will come up up.

Camlyn Giddins: 12:56

Like just just through talking right now, other things or other, um, other life directions are kind of coming from reflecting, right, my intention was never even really to share it with, like the whole world. I was always doing it for for us to see ourselves and for me to see myself. It's, it's a tool for understanding and, um, yeah, so I don't think it was nervous. What I got out of it was seeing again where we come from, like, oh, like this value is like a multi-generational value, like when we came together and met, being in that house. It felt like what it felt like growing up our Sundays, where we have music and we have food that was still present in this family, that we'd been separated from the whole time, like that energy, those, those traditions, that way of living. It was so cool to see how far it goes back.

Kevin Giddins: 13:45

Cause we had the same likes and music, same likes and food, same likes and values.

Crista Cowan: 13:50

Everything was connected, the same it just grounds me in who I am. I loved the way that you put that about how you know you have this part of your personality that you could start to see in these family members. That is clearly part of the nature of who you are, but that there was some of the nurturing that she was able to do that kind of helped you maybe reshape the way that you move forward in the world now. So that was always in you because it's part of who you are in your DNA. But now you can kind of take that story that she shared, that personality that she shared, and it's changing the way you're moving forward in the world.

Kevin Giddins: 14:26

Definitely it's changing the way you know. Life is beautiful. It really is, and it's short, but we should live it. And one of the things that she taught me in some of the gaps that she had in her life, some of the places that she wanted to travel, she was not able to travel. Some of the things she wanted to do she was not able to do. She has told me, kevin, don't hold back, do it. And again, as I said before, don't be unapologetic. It's not about being rude or mean, but be who you are, have integrity and live life to its fullest.

Camlyn Giddins: 14:57

She was really, really fun. I was able to take a road trip with her from South Carolina to New York. Just the two of you, just the two of us. Yeah, we drove, we saw the color purple. We hung out in New York. We even we did a tour in South Carolina too, new York, we even we did a tour in South Carolina too. She loved like family history. She loved learning about Africa, so even learning about the communities, our history down there Myrtle Beach, south Carolina areas. It was beautiful.

Crista Cowan: 15:22

I love that. I love that you both have that time with her, cameron. What about you? What I mean you have that time with her. Is there something you're going to take forward?

Camlyn Giddins: 15:30

Oh, my goodness. So this is. I'm wearing her ring. Actually, this is I couldn't believe that. She gave it to me or left it to me when she passed away. There's a J on it for Jackie and Jesus, because she is Jesus woman essentially.

Camlyn Giddins: 15:46

Yeah, I even interviewed her and got more of her spiritual story as well, and I even interviewed her and got more of her spiritual story as well, and so what I take from Mama J is this spiritual foundation and this love.

Camlyn Giddins: 16:00

She had a very driven mission for her life, but also just this gathering together essentially, I think, is one of her legacies. I just had my cousin here for my birthday, one of, yeah, um, from this family that I recently met, and this cousin just feels like a sibling and I, I, oh, I don't know, there's something that feels really special about this and I, I, I feel like her story is really beautiful and we're very fortunate, and some people have the story and then some people don't, when they meet their family members or birth family members, and one of the things that I feel like my cousin and I felt while we were together, because they said I've never had this kind of connection with family members before, but I feel like it's something we can create even if it's not present, even if it's not here, and I think that's one thing I'm taking away from mom and Jay is is make a plan, create the environment, create the family relationships that you want to have.

Kevin Giddins: 17:01

I'm really taking away the importance of family gathering, connecting and where things are broken, find ways to heal. There are a lot of families and my family are broken. Find ways to heal. There are a lot of families and my family with her. There are a lot of secrets where a lot of people didn't know about me for a lot of different reasons, and so after I found my mother, we had to then go on a family tour to educate family members her brothers, sisters, my cousins that I existed and bring healing, and so I think there are a lot of families that, before life is over, you got to find ways to heal.

Crista Cowan: 17:37

Secrets are. Secrets are a story all into themselves and a lot of people become secret keepers instead of story keepers, and story keepers can become storytellers, and I think that's important that we share those stories with each other, to be able to go and share a story that was probably rooted in.

Camlyn Giddins: 17:57

A lot of shame for her, but there is healing in that I think there are things that our living family members can teach us if we open up and share both the light and the shadows and the mistakes and things we're learning or working on, both the light and the shadows and the mistakes and things we're learning or working on. And then I often think and call out to ancestors who have lived before to keep teaching me, speaking to me, guiding me. And so, yeah, they still live.

Crista Cowan: 18:22

Yeah, they live in us and sometimes through us. Yeah, we all have different mediums. We share stories. You use film, I use podcasting, some people journal, some people, I hope, just sit around the dinner table and share those stories with their children. But the sharing of the story is whatever medium you choose. That's where the power is.

Kevin Giddins: 18:42

And well, I think the power also is in. History is told by conquerors, and the question is tell your story so that you tell your own story. Don't allow other people to tell your story. Whether you're a mom, a dad, a brother, a sister, what is your story? And you be the one to decide what your story is versus someone else telling your story.

Camlyn Giddins: 19:01

And I'll add that I feel like this experience has also shifted the conversations that we have, like the questions that we ask each other, are way more in-depth about our inner world, or what is this experience like? Much like the questions you're asking on this table, but like can you imagine what would it be like if families just talked like this on a regular basis about what's happening in our internal world? Yeah, that was a big influence why you make the decisions you make?

Crista Cowan: 19:29

Yeah. Where you're moving forward to in the world? Yeah. What do you dream of? Now that you've been on this journey, now that you've collected these stories, I'd love to hear from each of you Maybe we'll start with you what you hope for the future, now that you have this behind you.

Camlyn Giddins: 19:46

I hope that I and my family members can continue to like, create this feeling, this feeling of connection and love, and just expand it Now that we know it's possible. Like what is it like to nourish this and for it to grow even more. Whether Mama J is here or not, family members are always going to change, is always going to happen. We're always going to lose people, but that doesn't mean we need to lose this connection. Yeah, thanks.

Kevin Giddins: 20:21

Kevin, what about you? One of the things I hope I you know, back in the day when they kept slaves separate on different plantations for a reason because if they were to unite and communicate, they become very powerful. But think about that in the family, if families were to unite and communicate, we become very powerful. I ask my children all the time my friends, how is your world, how's your world? I hope that, as we move forward, the legacy that I can leave behind that Mama J left for me is importance of continually coming together and communicating, talking, sharing stories. How was your day at school? How's your world now? Because as you ask those questions, there could be links of oh, granddad did that. Oh, grandma had this experience. Here's how they dealt with it. Dad did that. Oh, grandma had this experience, here's how they dealt with it. Not that my world has to be the same as yours, but I think we can discover not only who we are, but where we want to go, what our goals are, what our aspirations are.

Kevin Giddins: 21:21

I think, for anyone listening, one of the things that I would love to share is that there are people in your family that are missing. There are people in your family that are missing that are either hurt, feeling alone. And by doing your history, discovering those family members, you're bringing people out of obscurity, bringing those people who are hurt, healing. And so I just want to tell all those who are listening is genealogy is not just for old people who are retired now and love doing genealogy, it's for all of us. Finding family members who may be missing, feel alone, because they will, in turn, give you power, give you strength, give you insight into who you are and where you're going. And so I'd say genealogy is really about finding your family, finding your DNA, finding who you are, finding those who are alone. And so I just want to tell everyone listening, find your family, find people. There are people wanting to be found.

Camlyn Giddins: 22:26

And the work is bigger than that. It's a lot and I don't want this to overwhelm folks, but like there are people missing. But even the physical people present can be missing if they don't feel like they can express themselves because you haven't created a culture where you're communicating. Years ago, when we met Mama J, I'm changing a lot from our family traditions and who we are and that changed. Like there's potential of disconnection there, right, but because of the way that we communicate.

Kevin Giddins: 23:01

I'm still here. Mama J created a table for us to go. That's a big thing in the African-American community come together at a table and create the table. She's allowed us to create a beautiful table to come around, sit down, eat food, play music, have fun. What she also did is reinitiated the joy of playing cards. Mom and Jay love spades and that is something that a tradition that has now been passed down that we come together. Every time we come together as a family, we eat, play music and play cards. That is our family thing.

Crista Cowan: 23:34

I love the family culture you've created, both the culture that you brought to this moment before meeting Mama J, but also the way you've just folded her and her traditions into your family, and I love that, this idea that this going forward with that means people continue to be seen and they continue to be heard, and life has changed. You're absolutely right, kim. Like people change, we evolve, but the ability to stay connected means we have to continue to share our stories, both individually and collectively as a family. Thank you, thank you both so much for sharing your relationship, your story, the stories of Moma J. I appreciate your time.

Kevin Giddins: 24:18

Well, again, thank you.

Crista Cowan: 24:19

Thank you.

Kevin Giddins: 24:20

You should have tissues next time.

Crista Cowan: 24:25

Well, that's all I've got for you on this episode of Stories that Live In Us, but here's some great news. One of the most valuable things you can do to help me and other potential listeners to find this show is for you to both rate it and leave a review. So, as a special bonus, if you write a review, take a screenshot of it and email it to stories that live in us at gmailcom, and I will send you a free ebook with my top tips for discovering and sharing your own family history stories. Also, please share, share, share this podcast with anyone you think might enjoy it. Until next time, remember that sharing your family stories means better perspective, deeper connections and a more empowering identity for you, your children and your grandchildren, maybe even for generations to come.